Not By Works

Psalm 119:44-45, "That I might guard Your Law continually, Forever and ever; That I might walk in liberty, For I have sought Your orders;"

James 1:22-25, “And become doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. Because if anyone is a hearer of the Word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror, for he looks at himself, and goes away, and immediately forgets what he was like. But he that looked into the perfect Law of liberty, and continues in it, not becoming a hearer that forgets, but a doer of work, this one shall be blessed in his doing.”

James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”

You are all over the place. End outcome... purpose... goal... it's not different. The purpose of the law is to lead people to faith in Christ. You laugh at my question, but I noticed you didn't say yes. Works reveal faith. They are not faith. The Law served it's purpose to lead us to Christ. And now we are lead by the Spirit.

You must have misunderstood my view on telos... I was saying the oppisite of what you are saying. It means end goal not end as in over...

and I laughed because I never even hinted at what you imply and ask of me, we have gone through thise before, and I showed that it is a falsehood, that when anyone says the Law is not abolished or that we should be obedient it isthe battle cry of the antinomian to accuse, impy or suppoe that said person is teaching "justification by works"

NONESENSE... was my statement about hypergrace and legalisim being ditches and the teachings of Messiah neing a mountian not telling? No because you want to paint you view of me over my words just as you out your commentary in my name in the prior post.

Yahshua is the way. Yahshua is the salvation of YHWH. That is what His name means and that is the reality.

Here this is Scripture:

Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”

John 8:24, “Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.”

Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושע Messiah."

I'm not painting any view by asking you a question. If I didn't ask you a question and assumed, I would be painting a view of you. A goal is the end outcome of a game of sport. We play the game to get goals.

Our daily life is to accomplish goals. Once the goal is done, we move to the next one.

The Law lead us to Christ. So that we would be lead by Him directly.

The just live by faith. And works reveal that faith. And the works are loving one another. The Law of liberty is freedom to love one another.

Gal 5:13 For you, brothers, were called to freedom; but do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh. Rather, serve one another in love.

Yes the yare a part of the jot and tittles... and Yahshua is the High Priest...

It was not the priesthood that was abolished, it was the Levitical priesthood, Yahshua is High Priest.... there is still a priesthood...

AND praise Yah! for this, the PERFECT High Priest, eternal and making intercession for His people

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

"commands" is word #G1785 - entolé: an injunction, order, command
Original Word: ἐντολή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: entolé
Phonetic Spelling: (en-tol-ay')
Short Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

yet those crying love deny His Law/Commands...

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

then they say ONLY beleive, howver this ignores the 2 greatset Commandsments given by the Messiah AND rejects any doing of what the Messiah says...

This is grace perversion, destroying all the words of the MEssiah and any following of Him in the guise of "grace" and if you do what He says you are "fallen from grace"

John 8:51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone guards My Word he shall never see death at all.”

John 14:23-24, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

Yep taking a few Scriptures out of context once again.

Matt. 5:18 is not a Scripture that commands BELIEVERS to follow the Law. It's a Scripture that says it still exists. But we are DEAD to it. The old ways are gone.

Revelation 21:1 is just you proof texting.

Sure be lead by Him, but He's also in the believers around you. If you don't believe that. Why do you try to correct people?

John 12:48 - "The word that I have spoken." You are conflating this Scripture. It has nothing to do with the LAW.

John 12:4 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

By your own words you think people are sinning right now. People who don't follow the Law. Yet these are people who believe in Him. So are YOU believing the WORD He has spoken?

Acts 3:19-23 Yes follow everything HE says, and He says BELIEVE on HIM. But you're conflating this Scripture if you think this is about the Law. It's about Jesus.

Here's some Scripture about Him:

And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. (Luke 24:27)

For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory. (2 Corinthians 1:20)

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (Romans 10:4)

"The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. (Luke 16:16)

Okay well now we are discussing. Thanks for not just ignoring it.

In regards to following the law. The entire law is fulfilled in loving one another. Yes or no?

As far as your telos commentary that's interesting. With this new information, I see that Scripture as Christ is the end outcome/goal for the Law. Which lines up with plenty of Scripture.

Galatians 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.

Are you justified by faith?

Amen and the law had two purposes under the sun...

a. Condemn the world and all men as guilty
b. Point to the only cure-->JESUS

No man keeps it, has kept it, will keep it except JESUS. Break one of the least of the commandments = guilty of the whole.

When one sees his guilt, acknowledges Christ by faith and has the blood and righteousness of Christ applied and imputed by faith, the law has worked it's purpose and that person has been born again spiritually from above by the Spirit and with incorruptible seed. They are no longer bound under and or guilty by the law.

The righteousness of Christ has been imputed without the works/deeds of the law........we have been set FREE fro the bondage of sin and guilt of the law.

The law is for the LAWLESS<---the LOST.....NOT SAVED born again believers.....................

CHRIST is the end of the LAW for RIGHTEOUSNESS<----this statement speaks VOLUMES!

What about practical righteousness, day to day living? While righteousness, in and of ourselves, doesn't save us, what part does holiness play in our walk? I've noticed a small backlash, from different people, when any discussion of victory over sin is discussed. Its instantly assumed that sinless perfectionism is in mind. To what degree do we truly have victory over sin, not only in terms of being justified and not condemned, but in action?

to those who say God will cast His own out (which He said He never would)


how do you explain the fact Gods gifts are without repentance?


and to those who say a man throws the gift away himself..... how do you explain the fact we are not kept by the will of man and that no one will remove us from His hand?





never got an answer to this one....

Amen and the law had two purposes under the sun...

a. Condemn the world and all men as guilty
b. Point to the only cure-->JESUS

No man keeps it, has kept it, will keep it except JESUS. Break one of the least of the commandments = guilty of the whole.

When one sees his guilt, acknowledges Christ by faith and has the blood and righteousness of Christ applied and imputed by faith, the law has worked it's purpose and that person has been born again spiritually from above by the Spirit and with incorruptible seed. They are no longer bound under and or guilty by the law.

The righteousness of Christ has been imputed without the works/deeds of the law........we have been set FREE fro the bondage of sin and guilt of the law.

The law is for the LAWLESS<---the LOST.....NOT SAVED born again believers.....................

CHRIST is the end of the LAW for RIGHTEOUSNESS<----this statement speaks VOLUMES!

how could i forget when i am ever in my time of need for Him?
((and i'm glad you remind me))

the priesthood of Levi, their duties, and the requirement of the people to bring to Levi the sacrifices and the tithes are part of the jots and the tittles.

see but the judeaizers make up this 3rd option, that one has to keep the Law and the Sabbath and the festivals and the dietary laws and not celebrate Christmas and Easter and ……...

they reject the idea of only 2 ways ( perfectly keep the law or accept Christ and His Righteousness ), and make up something else.

which they bounce around and play word games and use smokescreens and misdirection tactics to defend their man-made religion.

notice how many of us give the same consistent truth- believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

compare that to their shifting sands , and it is no contest.

You know me....instead of stating I am wrong, why not ask me to clarify.....and the point is clear....the time frame the Law and the Prophets lasted until JOHN (I.E>OLD covenant) we are currently under the covenant of Grace which was ushered in and ratified by Christ himself.....

that is the point....peace migo

We have always been under the "Covenant of Grace".

Gen. 6:
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

The Covenant that was changed had to do with how this Grace was applied.

The Old Covenant, through Moses, required that a man must go through Levite Priests who then perform Sacrificial, ceremonial "works of the Law" for the cleansing of our past sins.

The New Covenant through the Creator of Moses, required that a man must go through the Messiah spoken of in the Law and Prophets, no longer through the Priesthood of Levi.

Although I agree that the "Covenant of Grace" was ushered in by the Christ, it must be recognized that this Christ "created all things" and that it was the Christ who spoke to Cain.

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? (Grace) and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

It was the Christ who spoke to Abram.

Gen. 12:
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, (Grace) and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him;

It was the Christ who spoke to Issac

Gen. 26:
3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; (Receive Grace)
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
6 And Isaac dwelt in Gerar:

We are warned about "another voice", "another Messiah" that didn't give Grace until thousands of years later. But if a person sticks with the Word, and not all those "other voices" with their own religious traditions, we will be able to endure.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

I'm not painting any view by asking you a question. If I didn't ask you a question and assumed, I would be painting a view of you. A goal is the end outcome of a game of sport. We play the game to get goals.

Our daily life is to accomplish goals. Once the goal is done, we move to the next one.

The Law lead us to Christ. So that we would be lead by Him directly.

The just live by faith. And works reveal that faith. And the works are loving one another. The Law of liberty is freedom to love one another.

Gal 5:13 For you, brothers, were called to freedom; but do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh. Rather, serve one another in love.

what i mean is this:

in order for the priesthood to be changed, the jots and tittles of the Law that give the priesthood to the sons of Aaron -- in an everlasting covenant of salt -- had to somehow be removed.

if the argument is that no part of the Law is removed because 'not one jot or tittle' -- then the priesthood isn't changed, because that changes the Law, and by changing it, removes jots and tittles. changing the requirement for man to bring bulls and goats and doves to the sons of Aaron also removes jots and tittles. yes, Jesus is become our high priest forever -- but in order for this to occur the Law must be changed. jots and tittles must be removed. the Law says offer the blood of animals -- if His blood was offered and accepted forever, it is according to an unchanged Law of Moses with no "yodh" removed?