Is unconditional election biblical?

True honest question here....

What exactly do you mean by unconditional election? What I mean is are you saying that our destiny is determined by God from the beginning and it doesn't matter what we do we are either saved or lost because it was predetermined?

Because simply reading and studying the scriptures, one would never come up with this theology.

You are the one who should be listening to yourself. God never works outside of his holy nature, therefore He only does according to who He is and what He has revealed to be.


Provide chapter and verse where the cross of Jesus Christ is limited only to those whom God has chosen to save, while the rest of His creation He discards as trash.

You missed my point completely. If God chooses to save people because He does what He wants, then the cross is the biggest failure in the history of the world. Calvinism is so wrong.

Read the responses in purple.

By the way, I will note that a large part of this persons' post is based on false assumptions regarding Reformed theology. Also, I can't take the time to address every single claim in regards to this topic.

I suggest that you get a good book on Reformed theology if you really want an accurate portrayal of it, and the one I recommend is Five Points of Calvinism by David Steele. The individuals on this site are not accurately portraying it, although I don't doubt the intentions of some of them. Others are simply misinformed and repeating propaganda.

I also recommend audios by Brian Borgman on this issue. They are on SermonAudio. I can provide links if anyone is interested. My email address is in the signature.

See responses above in dark purple.

See responses above in dark purple.

those are not nasty comments at when matched with your rhetoric

when are you going to answer everyone who is asking if you think you were saved before you heard the gospel?

and you should get out of the basement for a little fresh air

as it is, everyone, including the op whom I disagree with regarding Calvinism, has disagreed with you and told you that you do not have proper knowledge of scripture

why do you pick on me? LOL!

...
I suggest that you get a good book on Reformed theology if you really want an accurate portrayal of it, and the one I recommend is Five Points of Calvinism by David Steele. The individuals on this site are not accurately portraying it, although I don't doubt the intentions of some of them. Others are simply misinformed and repeating propaganda.

I also recommend audios by Brian Borgman on this issue. They are on SermonAudio. I can provide links if anyone is interested. My email address is in the signature.

Wait a second here. Forget about Calvin and TULIP (which apparently HE wasn't the one that created that acronym). Calvin, like Luther, had MAJOR flaws. Both were rabid anti semites just to name one. Luther a little more so.

BUT, how you have defined total depravity is completely Biblical, and I would argue to preach against would be heresy.

The idea of the inherited sin nature is all over Scripture. It is succinctly outlined in Romans. ALL HAVE SINNED...
Remember that?

If we COULD follow God without being born again, we wouldn't need Jesus to begin with! YOU, cannot do ANYTHING, UNTIL you are born. Think about that a sec.

There is a reason to preach the gospel. The inspired words of God were not written to to the eternally unsaved because they cannot discern the things of the Spirit, but they were written to the elect to inform them how God wants them to live their lives as they sojourn here in this world, and also, to inform them that Jesus has died on the cross to pay for their sins and imputed his righteousness unto them, telling them that they do not have to go about trying to establish their own righteousness, by their good works. Jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep (God's elect) of the house of Israel.

No, I would wholly disagree that RT, Calvin's Total Depravity , is far from Biblical. Because for it to be Biblical, the rest of the TULIP formula would have to be true and attributable to God. Which it is not.
Bible Responses

Ezekiel 18:19-23—“Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself…. ‘Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?’ says the Lord GOD, ‘and not that he should turn from his ways and live?’”

Ezekiel 28:15—“You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you.”

Psalm 106:37-38—“They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons, and shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters.”

Zechariah 12:1—“Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him.”

Matthew 18:2-3—“Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.’”

Matthew 19:14—“But Jesus said, ‘Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.’”

Romans 7:9—“I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died.”





Yes, all have sinned. Unless or until they repent of their sins and have those put under the blood of Jesus.

No need to think about that. I believe you are confused as to whom you really mean to address your remarks to. I have never once said we could follow God without being born again.
As the rest of your post is errant when addressed to me as well I have edited to omit that for brevity.

Name just ONE soul, IN ALL OF HISTORY, save Jesus, that has NOT sinned, and deserved eternal death.

No, I would wholly disagree that RT, Calvin's Total Depravity , is far from Biblical. Because for it to be Biblical, the rest of the TULIP formula would have to be true and attributable to God. Which it is not.
Bible Responses

Ezekiel 18:19-23—“Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself…. ‘Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?’ says the Lord GOD, ‘and not that he should turn from his ways and live?’”

Ezekiel 28:15—“You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you.”

Psalm 106:37-38—“They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons, and shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters.”

Zechariah 12:1—“Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him.”

Matthew 18:2-3—“Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.’”

Matthew 19:14—“But Jesus said, ‘Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.’”

Romans 7:9—“I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died.”





Yes, all have sinned. Unless or until they repent of their sins and have those put under the blood of Jesus.

No need to think about that. I believe you are confused as to whom you really mean to address your remarks to. I have never once said we could follow God without being born again.
As the rest of your post is errant when addressed to me as well I have edited to omit that for brevity.

When all else fails, greekify...

Confusion comes from not rightly dividing the word of truth.

In your system, one could never know if they are eternally saved since, in order to prove this, one must follow the commandments and do good works throughout one’s life.

Read Romans 9, especially v. 19.

Man has nothing to say about how God deals with his creation.

He doesn't have to meet your expectations.

If you think God always does things the way that we think is right, then that would be a good sign that you have an idol and do not worship God. God is a controversial being. He drown all but eight persons in the Flood.

And, the number "8" was not incidental. Eight is the number of new beginnings. For instance, the Hebrew child was circumcised on the eighth day. Circumcision meant that a new member entered the covenant community. He was recognized as a new creation at the point of his circumcision.

Jesus was resurrected on the eighth day. His resurrection body is the beginning of a new creation.

Why am I bringing this up? It was not accidental that God only saved eight people, and that he began his "new creation" under Noah with only eight people. This means he was selective. So, election is within his modus operandi.

He will also populate his new creation (the New Heavens and the New Earth) with an innumerable multitude that he has elected out of every tribe, tongue and nation. See Revelation 5, 21, 22.

I mean, ya might need to read this whole chapter if you don't think we were born with Adam's sin nature. Pay special attention to ALL HAVE SINNED.

Romans 5 New King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Triumphs in Trouble
5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, [a]we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces [b]perseverance; 4 and perseverance, [c]character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Christ in Our Place
6 For when we were still without strength, [d]in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the [e]offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many [f]offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s [g]offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through [h]one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one[i] Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

You have completely misunderstood the verses you posted. And consequently why Jesus had to come.

Your arguments mirror those of the Pharisees that thought they were saved by:
A. Being a blood descendant of Abraham.
B. Their adherence to the Law.

Very easy to refute.

Name just ONE soul, IN ALL OF HISTORY, save Jesus, that has NOT sinned, and deserved eternal death.