Doctrines like Limited Atonement - why?

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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#201
Jul 8, 2018
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#201
Lightskin said:
Your addition is never perceived by me as butting in. I welcome your correspondence, and insight. That said however, I respectfully and vehemently disagree with Calvinism.
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Thanks, and I also, from what I have heard of him, do not believe he speaks as having a complete knowledge of the word. I have never referred to his writings, nor any other interpretations of man's writings. I believe the KJV scriptures prove themselves when you compare them one to another. They are the only source in my studies.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#202
Jul 8, 2018
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#202
EleventhHour said:
Interesting to note ....

it should be noted that Thayer was a Unitarian, who denied Biblical Inerrancy,

Apparently he changed his view as well...

Thayer's original 1889, unabridged, Greek-English Lexicon, Greek Definition 2889, Section 8, defines the Greek word "kosmos" as referring to:
8. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

Link
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I agree, that any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort, such as "the world of beliver's" and "and not the whole world of mankind". is correct.
 
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ForestGreenCook

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#203
Jul 8, 2018
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#203
John146 said:
Replacement theology is not biblical. The Church has not replaced Israel.🤦‍♂️
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You ignore the scriptures that I have given you, and make your statement, without any scriptures to uphold it. The reason that you do not see the truth in the scriptures may be because you are basing your statement depending on your own entelect, or what someone else has told you, instead of comparing scripture to scripture.
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

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#204
Aug 16, 2019
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#204
ForestGreenCook said:
Why does God tell us to not love the world, 1 John 2:15, that he says he so loves, John 3:16, unless he is referring to two different worlds?
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You know full well we are to love God with all our heart, mind and soul, and our neighbors as ourselves. That is the world whom God loves.

We are not to love the world that pertains to money, idolatry and everything else that redirects our focus away from God.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#207
#207
ForestGreenCook said:
I agree, that any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort, such as "the world of beliver's" and "and not the whole world of mankind". is correct.
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Kosmos in Greek here means the world, and I am not going to rely on Thayer alone but on the greater context of all scripture.
 
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EleventhHour

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#208
#208
Dave-L said:
Scripture properly understood defines God. If we abuse the text making it say what it does not, we produce an idol to worship.
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Well that is stretch to state he has redefined God... seriously if any doctrinal camp has redefined God it would be those that teach God only selects some for salvation, bestowing His grace only on a certain few.

That creates a morally ambiguous God.

That would be an idol, since God is not morally ambiguous.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#209
Jan 17, 2020
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#209
EleventhHour said:
Well that is stretch to state he has redefined God... seriously if any doctrinal camp has redefined God it would be those that teach God only selects some for salvation, bestowing His grace only on a certain few.

That creates a morally ambiguous God.

That would be an idol since God in not morally ambiguous.
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Free Will (Universal Atonement) denies God's grace in salvation and turns him and the gospel into something they are not.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#212
#212
Dave-L said:
Free Will (Universal Atonement) denies God's grace in salvation and turns him and the gospel into something they are not.
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Well as I have told you free will is not a biblical concept, and "universal atonement" meaning that Jesus bore the sins of all humanity in no way denies God's Grace.

Actually, it affirms God's great love for all people and His desire that all would be persuaded to receive His great gift of salvation.
That people can be persuaded in no way diminishes the sovereignty of God which is something apparently people who follow Calvin's ideas cannot seem to grasp.

Inherent in the very concept of sovereignty is the power of the Sovereign to allow, guide, pursue and sometimes compel, and He acts in many different ways because He is all-knowing and we are not.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#213
Jul 8, 2018
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#213
EleventhHour said:
Kosmos in Greek here means the world, and I am not going to rely on Thayer alone but on the greater context of all scripture.
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I am glade to hear that you rely on the context of ALL scriptures. Scripture proves scripture when compared to each other. You claim that "the all that the Father gave to Jesus" (John 6:37) was all mankind, but if you compare that scripture to (John 10:29) we find that His Father gave him only "his sheep" His sheep denotes those who are believers, and have been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.(Eph 2). John 6:37 says All that the Father giveth me SHALL come to me. Did all mankind come to him?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#214
#214
ForestGreenCook said:
I am glade to hear that you rely on the context of ALL scriptures. Scripture proves scripture when compared to each other. You claim that "the all that the Father gave to Jesus" (John 6:37) was all mankind, but if you compare that scripture to (John 10:29) we find that His Father gave him only "his sheep" His sheep denotes those who are believers, and have been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.(Eph 2). John 6:37 says All that the Father giveth me SHALL come to me. Did all mankind come to him?
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Yup

Romans 5:18 Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#215
Jan 17, 2020
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#215
EleventhHour said:
Well as I have told you free will is not a biblical concept, and "universal atonement" meaning that Jesus bore the sins of all humanity in no way denies God's Grace.

Actually, it affirms God's great love for all people and His desire that all would be persuaded to receive His great gift of salvation.
That people can be persuaded in no way diminishes the sovereignty of God which is something apparently people who follow Calvin's ideas cannot seem to grasp.

Inherent in the very concept of sovereignty is the power of the Sovereign to allow, guide, pursue and sometimes compel, and He acts in many different ways because He is all-knowing and we are not.
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It denies grace because it doesn't save anyone. Grace saves all for whom God paid for on the cross. Providing the self-righteous with a way to save themselves is not grace.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#219
Jan 13, 2016
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#219
EleventhHour said:
Well as I have told you free will is not a biblical concept, and "universal atonement" meaning that Jesus bore the sins of all humanity in no way denies God's Grace.

Actually, it affirms God's great love for all people and His desire that all would be persuaded to receive His great gift of salvation.
That people can be persuaded in no way diminishes the sovereignty of God which is something apparently people who follow Calvin's ideas cannot seem to grasp.

Inherent in the very concept of sovereignty is the power of the Sovereign to allow, guide, pursue and sometimes compel, and He acts in many different ways because He is all-knowing and we are not.
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All means every living man and woman, including kings and all that are in authority. The “all men” in verse 4 would include kings and all that are in authority. Obviously, all kings and all that are in authority are not saved, but it is God’s will that they be saved.

1 Timothy 2
2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

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#220
Jan 17, 2020
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#220
John146 said:
All means every living man and woman, including kings and all that are in authority. The “all men” in verse 4 would include kings and all that are in authority. Obviously, all kings and all that are in authority are not saved, but it is God’s will that they be saved.

1 Timothy 2
2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
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All men = all nations including women, not just Jews any more as in the OT.
 
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