Doctrine of Unconditional Election

1. I believe in the doctrine of election. Just not your view of it
2. Funny how in this long rant. You did not directly respond to what you gave me a red X for. And show how what I said was wrong. (Which I am used to)
3. Salvation is a gift. Thank you. I realy want to thank you for agreeing with me that the gift in eph 2 8-9 is salvation. And not faith. It is THROUGH faith we are saved. And that salvation is a gift.
4. Predestination is the basis of our hope. If I have no hope of eternal life. I have no faith. If I have no hope that in the end, I will be in heaven and not in hell where I belong, then I can have no faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for. The evidence of things not seen.
5. Faith is NOT a work. Again (since you continually refuse to answer) how in Gods name can my trust of someone else to save me when I am totally unable to save myself a work? You have works on your mind. And are so afraid to even think you might be saving yourself you can not see the truth
6. Once again. John 1-6 shows it is to those who RECIEVE, who BELIEVE, who ASK, who EAT, who DRINK, who CHEW that are given the gift of life. (those are the apostle johns and Jesus words not mine)

As I said before You are my brother. Sadly, you can not be like my brother Grandpa. You seem to be on some mission to attack anyone who does not agree with your fatalistic view of savation wrong. No matter what they say

You and I both believe we ar saved by grace through faith. And this salvation is eternal. You and I both believe we have been reconciled to God. You and I both believe we have eternal security in CHrist. And alongside our brother Grandpa. You and I will be laughing at how foolish we ar with these debates when we meet in heaven.

I pray for you my friend. Stop listening to your fatalistic hebrew roots sister icedaisy, and for once in our conversations try to listen to what I am saying and stop taking me so personal.

She claims I am not your brother because she did not believe I believed in Eternal security like you do. A fact she denies to this day. She can deny it all she wants, She continues to hurt her own testimony the longer she denies it.

My God says he resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.. Lets all seek His grace and not seek to boat because we are afraid to admit we made a mistake.

Or continue in this path of division because of things we were taught growing up.

Thanks for proving once again you have utterly no idea what I believe

Jesus wept over Jerusalem because it was his will to gather them together as a mother hen. But they were unwilling

Yes they chose to willfully rebel against Gods will. So you telling people that we can not rebel against gods will is just false
God will humble us. It is just taking him longer to humble you.
But like I said keep talking. The more you talk. The more you prove me right.

Nor am I Calvinist, as I've been accused by some as well.

If you or anyone here makes the slanderous claims after this that I am HR or Calvinist, they're liars! p

If it was based upon God's knowledge, then why did He have to elect before the foundation of the world? What was its purpose; what did it accomplish? Why didn't He just wait for you to do whatever it is you think you did to get it, with Him knowing that you eventually would? Election is only meaningful if it is a central part of the process of salvation. Election negates any other doctrine that is perceived to achieve salvation.

I'll say this just to correct your slander. I AM NOT HEBREW ROOTS! Nothing I've said even smacks of Hebrew Roots. Nor am I Calvinist, as I've been accused by some as well.

If you or anyone here makes the slanderous claims after this that I am HR or Calvinist, they're liars! And the truth is not in them.
Now that we're clear.

Keep with your delusion. It's a constant.
All these pages, all these posts, and the Bible itself, and you still don't get it.

How do you live with thinking you can say, God's will and power are not preeminent in his creation? How do you imagine when GOD HIMSELF tells you he predestined whom he would save before the foundation of the world, and knows them by name, that people can choose to overcome that by their will? How do you do that? And claim to know God is God.

God predestines. Maybe that's it. Maybe you're unaware of what predestination is. Sovereignty. Maybe that's the case too. You don't know what Sovereignty of God is.

Because to be quite blunt, when you claim you've worshiped what you claim can be overcome in its plans by mere mortals choices, you're lost since the 70's. Not found!

The parable of the potter escapes you. Because you're here insisting the clay can overcome the potters will for it to become a pot and by choice! See, that's the parable meaning! Preeminence. Predestination.

The clue God is sovereign over his creation, besides the fact creation exists because the creator made it to operate according to his will for it, is the fact that almost every New Testament book contains Prophecy! Prophecy is present in a huge portion of the entire Canon.

Prophecy! Is God's foretelling what he has predestined for people and the world through his messengers called, Prophets!
Predestination! Predetermination. Preeminence!

But you go ahead and believe, as you insist is right, but can never be found in scripture, that the clay is able, by the potters design, to choose to overcome the potter's will for it.

Eternity is a very long time to be wrong. And alert emoji's won't make it stop. Smart snide remarks won't free you. You'll answer for every word you've spoken, as shall I, and Roger, and all of us, saved and unsaved. However, you I would like to be near when you tell God that His word led you to believe your choices could usurp his divine will and plans.

That humans, created of and from God, are able to overcome God! By choice.

When what you'll never understand unless God permits, is that those who act against God, do so because they don't know God. And they don't know God because it is as God wills. Why? Because in the beginning......before Eden, before the Tree of Knowledge, before the Serpent, GOD WROTE A BOOK!

And all else afterward are falling into place because without the plan, the names in the Book would mean NOTHING!

Think about what you're being asked to believe! Every truth that trickles into Revelation is in stark print in the beginning. Genesis.

God is God!
You're not.
Your choices? Where do they come from? How is it they exist?
Get it?

C'mon, you know the verse doesn't support the interpretation you've given it. It says "BORN" as in God MAKES
them BORN - born by His will. God's action, not ours

Yes, the born part is of God, it is his will not of man. So when the scripture says But as many received him...even to those who believed him is not the Will of God?. Being born into the family of God is not the physical one but spiritual. But how are we born spiritually? Just as the physical there is a spiritual way and the Bible is clear we are born into the family of God when Christ is received by faith. The scripture of truth taught us that God gives us the power to become the sons of God by virtue of our faith in him. We cannot separate verse 13 from v.12 faith= receiving/ believing in Christ will always result in God giving authority the right to become his child.

God is outside of time, He is outside of our reasoning

Again, Why do you want to limit Gods ability

Whom God FOREKNEW, he then did predestination to be conformed to the image of God

Whether we like or not we are limited to time. God is not.. I do not question him

You showed aspects of both since you have been here. Forgive me for calling out what I see.

I agree your not either. No calvinist I know would preach law like you did when you first God here, and no Your a mix of both. Your fatalism shows, and your want to return to law was there for all to see As uou defended our resident hebrew roots gal. And no hebrew roots person would profess OSAS, which I will admit. I would hve never taken you for a person who believes in OSAS. But unlike you. I am willing to confess and admit when I am wrong

If God didn't want us to know about it, He wouldn't have said so much about it in the Bible - He didn't have to

Yes, and "conformed to the image of God" that means those He foreknew are saved, and only those.

You do know that not being willing to "question him" may just be a symptom of not believing the correct doctrine, and therefore, it doesn't seem to fit correctly. Otherwise, you wouldn't have said we shouldn't "question him" - and by that, informing us that do have questions about your belief.

No, you're not. Otherwise, you wouldn't make that admission of wrong doing while continuing to make an effort to , in your mind, insult my faith in thinking I'm a Legalist as if that's wrong.

Christians that imagine all that Jesus taught about his law, because Jesus was God, and that means he was God who gave Moses the commandments on Sinai, and reiterated those in his NT ministry, is done away entirely are scary people. Truly.

Besides blatantly, and again, as in your case, abrogating what is in scripture itself as pertains to God's Law. When the truth is, that which is read in proper context, understood as an ongoing narrative that is never removed from the foundation that is the OT. While insisting the Christian is set apart and removed utterly from God's law, given that, is HOGWASH!

But, it does serve those who misunderstand the import of Eternal Salvation. Those who misrepresent that truth of God through Christ when they claim OSAS, as they call it and intending that to be a pejorative, is a "license to sin".

Let me just say, not a Christian alive who has read the New Testament believes that. Not one! Anywhere.

Why? Because those Christians have also read this: 1 John 3:9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
Other rekated scriptures: "those in christ do not make a habit of sinning"


Billy E said it best about OSAS. Transforming what naysayers imagine is a false doctrinal reference as they condemn what they call, OSAS, into what God guarantees eternally! OSAS=Once Sealed Always Sealed.

Those who are in Christ, and have Christ within them, sealed unto the last days, know, KNOW, that God's laws are in their hearts so that they are not far from them. Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds, 17 then he adds,“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin."

Matthew 22:37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
How is this accomplished? Because God's law is in our hearts and mind. That's how we are reborn and transformed into a new creation.

We were of the world, and the ways and "laws" of hedonism, carnality, in the world. Those no longer appeal nor apply to us. The ways of God do. There's no more sacrifices for sin. We don't slaughter animals to cover our sins. The last sacrifice, the pure unblemished Lamb of God cast that ceremonial law aside for all time.

What many appear not to realize is, God's law in the OT was in three categories. Ceremonial Law, Moral Law, Civil Law. Civil Law was between Jews, like civil law matters in courts today. Ceremonial Law was sacrifices to cover sins, now done away by Christ for the Christians for all time. That leaves the moral law.
As Jesus said, the law and the prophets are encapsulated in two laws. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and mind. Love your neighbor as yourself.
The Ten Commandments, the Decalogue, all ten commands encapsulated those two laws of Jesus. Love of God. Love of one's neighbor.

What's scary is to think there are Christians out there that think the moral laws of God no longer apply! I got news for them. They're not Christians!
Love for your neighbor insures you Shalt do, all that those commandments concerning neighbors and family declare Thou Shalt Not.
Love of God insures you shalt Love the Lord your God with all your heart and mind! And this means, thou shalt NOT have any other God's before him!

So when you make accusations about my belief about the Law of God, as if that's somehow your latest accusation against me, when Hebrew Roots didn't fly, Calvinist didn't fly, I say, thank you! Not because of how you meant those words about the law of God and me.

But because I know what Jesus said about his law and me! And brother, I can tell you, that's not an insult or wrong thinking by this woman!

When you or anyone for that matter think the law of God, now the Law of Christ for obvious reasons, is not applicable for Christians, you're dead wrong!

OH, and the Sabbath. Yes, the Sabbath. The other bone of contention some raise against Christians here.
The Sabbath was given to us by God. It was made for us by God!
It isn't a "Jewish" thing! If that erroneous idea enters someones thoughts, cast it away quickly. Because according to Bible prophecy, God's foretelling of that which he has predestined for the world, Jesus Christ was Jewish! If you're against something because you think it applies only to the Jews, you're missing the mark! Pun intended.

Jesus is our Sabbath rest. No kidding! That's because Jesus is God who gifted us our Sabbath day of rest.
Mark 2:27 And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."
We're indwelt by Holy Spirit God. Of course every day is a day with God, Christ. We have our eternal assurance in him. God knows this.
That's why God predestined a day where we, a temple of God, can take our rest from the occupations in this world and all that seeks our attentions, and rest in The Word. Pray, Meditate, Fast. No distractions like in our daily life.

That's not a "Jewish thing". That's a God made gift thing.
Problem?

Keep with your delusion. It's a constant.
All these pages, all these posts, and the Bible itself, and you still don't get it.

How do you live with thinking you can say, God's will and power are not preeminent in his creation? How do you imagine when GOD HIMSELF tells you he predestined whom he would save before the foundation of the world, and knows them by name, that people can choose to overcome that by their will? How do you do that? And claim to know God is God.

God predestines. Maybe that's it. Maybe you're unaware of what predestination is. Sovereignty. Maybe that's the case too. You don't know what Sovereignty of God is.

Because to be quite blunt, when you claim you've worshiped what you claim can be overcome in its plans by mere mortals choices, you're lost since the 70's. Not found!

The parable of the potter escapes you. Because you're here insisting the clay can overcome the potters will for it to become a pot and by choice! See, that's the parable meaning! Preeminence. Predestination.

The clue God is sovereign over his creation, besides the fact creation exists because the creator made it to operate according to his will for it, is the fact that almost every New Testament book contains Prophecy! Prophecy is present in a huge portion of the entire Canon.

Prophecy! Is God's foretelling what he has predestined for people and the world through his messengers called, Prophets!
Predestination! Predetermination. Preeminence!

But you go ahead and believe, as you insist is right, but can never be found in scripture, that the clay is able, by the potters design, to choose to overcome the potter's will for it.

Eternity is a very long time to be wrong. And alert emoji's won't make it stop. Smart snide remarks won't free you. You'll answer for every word you've spoken, as shall I, and Roger, and all of us, saved and unsaved. However, you I would like to be near when you tell God that His word led you to believe your choices could usurp his divine will and plans.

That humans, created of and from God, are able to overcome God! By choice.

When what you'll never understand unless God permits, is that those who act against God, do so because they don't know God. And they don't know God because it is as God wills. Why? Because in the beginning......before Eden, before the Tree of Knowledge, before the Serpent, GOD WROTE A BOOK!

And all else afterward are falling into place because without the plan, the names in the Book would mean NOTHING!

Think about what you're being asked to believe! Every truth that trickles into Revelation is in stark print in the beginning. Genesis.

God is God!
You're not.
Your choices? Where do they come from? How is it they exist?
Get it?

Zzzzzz! Oh, look, they're twins, again.
You think the truth puts you to sleep? Wait till you're dead and face God and answer for telling him his Salvation plan was weak and able to be overcome by choice.

Nope
I am not smarter
I just chose to accept the gift. And not continue in my denial

If it was based upon God's knowledge, then why did He have to elect before the foundation of the world? What was its purpose; what did it accomplish? Why didn't He just wait for you to do whatever it is you think you did to get it, with Him knowing that you eventually would? Election is only meaningful if it is a central part of the process of salvation. Election negates any other doctrine that is perceived to achieve salvation.

You pose a really good observation and question there.

Why did God Elect whom He'd Save before He created the world?

I know that.

I am just showing where the humanist philosophy leads.

You pose a really good observation and question there.

Why did God Elect whom He'd Save before He created the world?