Any Post or Non-Tribbers in Here?

Oh for sure, when we see Jesus, we will know but until then we will only see the birth pains.

Really? So when someone denies what is plainly revealed in Scripture, there is no further recourse. And he or she is treading on thin ice, since all Scripture is there for our instruction.

I agree the dowery has been paid.

But the mansions are being prepared and we are not there yet.

May I bring a bit of clarity here. MEN you are NOT a BRIDE!!!!!

That is a symbol God used for Israel. (Isa. 54: 4 - 6)

We, the Body of Christ are the NEW MAN. (Eph. 2: 15) Meaning that male and female natures are combined.

A spirit of confusion there.

Please read very carefully, a couple of times, John 14:1-6

Verse 1-4 have been fulfilled

Dwell and that and get back to me but first dwell on it - no rush - Blessing to you Brother

My dwelling has focused on one word (prepare). Jesus has not came back yet but only His Spirit to guide us to Him.


John 14:1-6

New International Version

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

That is not what it actually says, The DEPARTURE [of the church] AND the Anti-Christ must both happen before the Wrath of God falls. The first 7 English translations had Departure not Falling Away, the KJV twisted it because they were trying to slight the RCC by saying they had Departed the Faith ot fell away from Christ. Now go read the passage again, nowhere does it speak about faith, but it does speak about a Gathering unto Christ in the very first verse!! So, what makes sense, they were not to fear because the Anti-Christ had to come first? Well, since they knew not the day nor hour he could have shown up the very next day, and thus God's wrath could fall in one week. But..........if God's Wrath can't show up until the Church Departs AND the AC shows up then thy do not have to fear, because they will not be in the Wrath of God. I wrote a blog on this years ago, or I copied and pasted something, I forget now.

The Departure got changed (morphed into Apostacy) like the word GAY has been changed from Happy to a perverted lifestyle meaning.

The elect are the Bride of Christ. The Church age will be of this.

2 Corinthians 11:2 (ESV)
2 For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.

Did not the LORD go and prepare the Place already and ten HE came back to the Disciples.

Read 14:1-4 and now Read John ch17 = dwell on those and again back to me for more - enjoying the fellowship

Why do you feel it necessary to cite a spirit of confusion to myself here - when I stated in another post that making such claims is a mistaken ambition. You ought to be more plain, sister, and say what you mean to say rather than abstract your meanings behind a veil of religious terminology. I would no more emphatically say that of yourself than you ought to say it of any other - be that myself or another brother - no matter what mine or his belief is - the doctrines of life excepted. There are spirits that bring confusion to the brethren - and yet it would be better to say it of a doctrine and not a rational claim that cannot be an issue of life.

Just to be plain. sister. I don't receive civility easily - I would rather be thrown into the gutter. Be very plain or else spare me any need for receiving civility. I do enjoy reading these threads and often find myself looking something up or trying to understand the merit of what is shared. And that - even when there are no Scriptural references to be easily seen. Have a great Ozzy day!

Please explain how the Jewish wedding has been fulfilled. When our Groom said He is going to prepare a place for us, and He’s coming back to take us to where He is, when and how did that take place? Am I expecting something that was never going to happen?

Well I suppose it is how we define prepare a place and how He came back.

To prepare a place is the New Jerusalem, New Heaven, New Earth.

To come back to the apostles could be the Spirit because that was probably when they we're sealed with the Spirit. The Spirit brought them to the day of salvation upon death.

John chapter 14

[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
[2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Hi, Lori.

The first thing that we need to determine here is exactly who Jesus was speaking to when he uttered these words.

These words were spoken at the last supper which was attended by Jesus and his twelve apostles:

“Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.” (Matt. 26:20)

“And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.” (Mark 14:17)

“And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.” (Luke 22:14)

By the time that Jesus had uttered these words as recorded in John 14:1-3, Judas had already left to betray Jesus:

John chapter 13

[27] And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
[28] Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him.
[29] For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor.
[30] He then having received the sop went immediately out: and it was night.

In light of these truths, Jesus was left speaking to 11 of his 12 apostles.

Is this significant?

Yes, as a matter of fact it is, and we’ll see why momentarily.

First, let’s look again at what Jesus said to these remaining 11 apostles:

John chapter 14

[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
[2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Let’s ask ourselves the following question:

Where, exactly, is “my Father’s house” (vs. 2)?

The textbook answer is that it’s heaven, but that’s simply not true.

In reality, Jesus previously told us in this same gospel of John exactly what and where his Father’s house is when he said:

John chapter 2

[13] And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,
[14] And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
[15] And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
[16] And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
[17] And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

According to Jesus Christ, “my Father’s house” (vs. 16) or “thine house” (vs. 17) is “the temple” (vs. 14) in “Jerusalem” (vs. 13), and NOT heaven.

In relation to the same, Jesus said “In my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2), but the translation of “mansions” here is a TERRIBLE translation.

The underlying Greek word which is here translated as “mansions” is “monē”:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g3438/kjv/tr/0-1/

This word only appears twice in the underlying Greek text of the New Testament, and both appearances are in this same exact 14th chapter of John’s gospel.

Here is the other place where it appears, and here it is much better translated as “abode”:

“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our ABODE with him.” (John 14:23)

In fact, most Bible translations don’t translate “monē” as “mansions” in John 14:2, but rather as “room”, “rooms”, “dwelling places”, “lodgings”, or “resting places”, and you can easily verify that for yourself here:

https://biblehub.com/john/14-2.htm

In the light of these things, when Jesus said “in my Father’s house are many mansions”, he was NOT saying that “in heaven there are many mansions”, but rather he said “in the temple in Jerusalem there are many rooms or dwelling places”.

Stay with me a moment.

If you do, then you’ll see how this is not only what he actually said, but that it also makes perfect sense.

Previously, Jesus had said the following in relation to these same remaining 11 apostles:

Matthew chapter 19

[27] Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
[28] And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jesus had previously told these same 11 remaining apostles that “in the regeneration”, or when they get their glorified bodies at his second coming, “when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel”.

Concerning this timeline, this is not my own forced interpretation, but instead exactly what Jesus told us elsewhere.

We read:

Matthew chapter 25

[31] When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[32] And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

At Christ’s second coming (he only comes twice – Heb. 9:27), he will not only “sit upon the throne of his glory” (Matt. 19:28, 25:31), but the 11 remaining apostles who he was actually speaking to in John 14:1-3 “also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel” (Matt. 19:28).

We’re told over and over and over and over again in scripture exactly where this “throne of glory” will be:

IN HIS FATHER’S HOUSE IN JERUSALEM.

Here is but one example of this reality:

Isaiah chapter 2

[1] The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
[2] And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
[3] And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
[4] And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Again, “Jerusalem” (vss. 1-3) is where “the LORD’s house” (vs. 2), or “the house of the God of Jacob” (vs. 3), or “my Father’s house” (John 2:16, 14:2) is truly located, and NOT in heaven.

Let’s look at our opening text one last time:

John chapter 14

[2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

In relation to “my Father’s house” or in relation to a last days temple in Jerusalem with “many rooms” in it, Jesus told these remaining 11 apostles that he was not only going to prepare a place for them there, but also that he would come again and receive them unto himself, that where he is, there they may be also.

Well, here’s an important question for all of us to ask ourselves:

When Jesus COMES AGAIN (vs. 3) and “receives” these 11 apostles to whom he was actually speaking “unto himself” (vs. 3), WHERE WILL HE BE?

Of course, he will be RIGHT HERE ON EARTH BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE HE’S COMING TO.

In other words, where’s the imaginary U-Turn back to heaven?

Of course, it’s absolutely nowhere to be found within the actual text.

Here’s what Jesus was actually saying here:

“In my Father’s house (the temple in Jerusalem) there are many mansions (rooms): if it were not so, I would have told you. I go (back to the Father in heaven) to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again (from heaven to this earth), and receive you unto myself (here on earth at my coming); that where I am (here on earth at my coming), there (here on earth) ye may be also.”

Again, where did Jesus mention anything about allegedly taking them back to heaven after he comes?

Once more, the correct answer is absolutely nowhere.

At Jesus’ second coming (again, he only comes twice – Heb. 9:27), when he comes to sit in the throne of his glory within his Father’s house or within the coming temple in Jerusalem, the 11 apostles to whom he was actually speaking “also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel” (Matt. 19:28).

Seeing how Christ’s throne will be in Jerusalem, and seeing how these 11 are going to judge the twelve tribes of Israel, Jesus merely informed them that there are rooms in his Father’s house in which they’ll dwell at that time.

Who has ears to hear, let them hear.

Fair enough. I do find that you are wordy and not clear, and behind it all I sense a `spirit of confusion.`

What happens to you once you get to heaven pre trib?

All that dear bro, has to do with ISRAEL.

Not really. The churches are also prophetic warnings or praises. If a church today was faithful or lukewarm then if the rapture occurred today, only one will be saved from the judgments.

It is actually a positive sense of security. If you are secure in Christ then you are saved.

The NJ is for the OT saints, (Heb. 11: 16) whereas for us we do not need a `mansion.` The word really is `dwelling place.` And for us our new body is what will clothe us. We don`t need a kitchen, a bathroom, a bedroom, laundry etc. That is all earthly thinking that has been falsely taught.

The Body of Christ does NOT comes down out of heaven, (Rev. 21: 2) but is in the third heaven with Christ on His throne. (Rev. 3: 21)

Hi, Roughsoul1991.

No offense (you seem like a nice guy), but what you've stated here is patently false, and here is why.

There is a MAJOR DIFFERENCE between someone being raised from the dead in their physical body, only to die again later (as in the case of OT resurrections, Lazarus, the saints who arose in Matthew 27:51-52, etc., etc.), and someone being resurrected unto eternal life in a glorified body (like in I Thessalonians 4:16).

In these examples that you gave, the only example which truly matches up with "the first resurrection" mentioned in Revelation chapter 20 is the example from I Thessalonians 4:16.

In relation to this "first resurrection", we read:

Revelation chapter 20

[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This "first resurrection" clearly transpires at the introduction of Christ's Millennial or 1000-year reign here on earth. With such being the case, none of those other "resurrections" truly apply. In fact, those who were "resurrected" in the other ways that you described won't be "resurrected" in this manner in which they'll receive their glorified bodies until Christ's Millennial Reign begins.

Seeing how you mentioned what Paul said to the church at Thessalonika in relation to this "first resurrection", let's also consider what he said to the saints at Corinth in relation to the same.

We read:

I Corinthians chapter 15

[19] If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
[20] But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
[21] For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
[22] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
[23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

As we just read, Christ has "become the firstfruits of them that slept" (vs. 20) or the first to rise from the dead in a glorified body unto eternal life. Again, none of the OT saints, nor Lazarus, nor anybody else who was resurrected from the dead have attained to this sort of resurrection yet.

Furthermore, Paul told us the exact order of this type of resurrection, and it is "Christ the firstfruits", and "afterward they that are Christ's AT HIS COMING".

Again, no one will be resurrected unto eternal life in a glorified body until Jesus Christ's SECOND coming...not second and third comings.

He's only coming twice:

Hebrews chapter 9

[27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Something for you to hopefully prayerfully ponder before the Lord.