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  1. wattie

    Speaking in Tongues

    Well number one.. is hard to define. The point when maturity happened isn't in the individual faith walk but with the event of inspiration finishing. It's all of christendom coming to that point, not individual faith. Also the 'face to face' in 1 Corinthians 13 is to do with seeing in a glass...
  2. wattie

    Speaking in Tongues

    Look 1 Corinthians 13.. Paul and co.. knew in part, prophesied in part.. Paul also talks of maturing to go from a child to man. The sign gifts were part of a stage of Christianity without the full inspiration of the Scriptures...therefore it was not matured in terms of having the full...
  3. wattie

    Speaking in Tongues

    Weeell.. the fruits of the Spirit for a believer are different to the world. Faith hope and love supernaturally empowered by the Holy Spirit... patience that isn't about self enhancement or personal power, brotherly kindness that is centered in the local church (altho not limited to it) etc..
  4. wattie

    Speaking in Tongues

    Paul said this to the church at Corinth then.. so it applies to them in particular. So then it comes to whether we still apply what is said to them .. to us now. What has happened since then that would affect the sign gifts? The apostles have died and their close associates. God has...
  5. wattie

    Speaking in Tongues

    Yes, the sign gifts were associated with an immature Christianity. The unity of the faith is in the completed New Testament. The process of inspiration was still going on then and now is finished. The apostles passed and early churches set up. And yes.. when Paul says desire to speak in...
  6. wattie

    Speaking in Tongues

    Whoa ... tongues are not a requirement nor proof of having received eternal life. As they were , they were among gifts that not all had. Believers in a church had different gifts to compliment that parts of the local church body. So some wouldn't be speaking in tongues but would have the gift...
  7. wattie

    “Ecumenism”

    Ecumenism shouldn't really be persued. Unity in each local church is the biblical precedent.. not across every believer. What is watered down in the name of Ecumenism? Much! Keeping a pure faith is with the local church you are in.
  8. wattie

    Speaking in Tongues

    With this verse Paul also talks about having faith so he could move a mountain.. this isn't literally moving a real mountain, but figurative.. exaggeration. Paul gives examples.. 'though I could do this'.. not that he actually is doing it.. but making a point about the supremacy of the gift...
  9. wattie

    Speaking in Tongues

    Alright, so later in the chapter we see this: (1Co 14:9) So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. (1Co 14:10) There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them...
  10. wattie

    Speaking in Tongues

    Speaking in tongues a heavenly language? Acts 2 its earthly, known languages. Not known previously by the speaker.. but known by the hearers. When Paul speaks of speaking though I speak tongues of angels.. it is hyperbole.. exaggeration to make a point.
  11. wattie

    Eph 1:13, 4:30 etc. You were sealed with the Holy Spirit. When?

    We are indwelt by the Holy Spirit at believing in Jesus . The seal would happen at the same time.
  12. wattie

    "The Practical Beginning Of...

    Well Paul would have been baptised in reference to the body he joined. The Corinthians baptised in reference to Corinth. So then there is no problem. The Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12:13 gets put as the big S Holy Spirit, but in keeping with the context of the book of unity in a local...
  13. wattie

    "The Practical Beginning Of...

    Yes, this is the body at Corinth. Paul says to Corinth.. YOU are the body of Christ. Thats not every believer. That's the local church at Corinth.
  14. wattie

    "The Practical Beginning Of...

    There is the Family of God.. which had every believer in it. There is the Kingdom.. which has the Family in it. Churches.. bodies of Christ.. are within the Family and Kingdom... but not the same thing. The Family of God is not the Body of Christ. So... church at Jerusalem...local.. did not...
  15. wattie

    Poll of polls on the longest running debate:

    I don't know if this thread has already gotten into this.. but let's not start saying people who believe in OSAS aren't eternally saved.. or that people who don't believe in OSAS aren't eternally saved. Eternal salvation is the initial belief in Jesus. What people get taught afterward affects...
  16. wattie

    How Many Requirements Exist

    Okay, John 3:16- Someone believes in Jesus.. they have eternal life. The believing.. is along the lines of belief that He is God.. that He lived sinless, that He died and rose again and that you are entrusting your salvation with Him. Demons don't do that! Demons know He exists.. but...
  17. wattie

    How Many Requirements Exist

    But that's worldly thinking. Jesus' love is so deep He seals a believer for eternity. He also will correct and rebuke a believer. Grace and truth combined. But a believer.. has the Holy Spirit in their soul.. why would they go on and think worldly.. I can now do whatever I want? That...
  18. wattie

    How Many Requirements Exist

    At salvation you'd be indwelled by the Holy Spirit. There would then be fruit from that as the result of indwelling. If you got into sin.. you'd be corrected and rebuked by God.. so it is unlikely someone seriously sinning continually after salvation would continue in it. But since we have...
  19. wattie

    How Many Requirements Exist

    But every Christian actually cannot keep all Jesus's teachings 100 percent.. although this is what we strive for. So it comes back to Jesus saving us aside from keeping to a set of commands. So we are saved through belief in Jesus as I typed, aside from works. Following all of Jesus'...
  20. wattie

    Poll of polls on the longest running debate:

    Disqualified here isn't about eternal salvation but ministry. Like a pastor committing Adultery and getting removed from pastorship