Genesis 3:16 Bible Old Testament. Surah 4:34 (Quran)

[Amanuensis]

Yes. That was a red herring to begin with, and I already told the poster that Jewish interpretations are irrelevant. Before the first advent of Christ, the Jewish rabbis had already built up a system of interpretation which went against what God had revealed. Therefore when Christ exposed their false teachings, the chief priests, scribes, Pharisees, and lawyers became enemies of Christ and plotted His demise. After 70 AD, Jewish rabbis doubled down on their false beliefs and enshrined them in the Talmud. So Christians have nothing to do with Jewish interpretations. They rejected their own true Messiah because of their own false beliefs, and Christ pronounced woes upon all of them.

There is value in knowing about those ancient rabbinical writings. Sometimes there are clues within a bad interpretation that helps scholars confirm details about a good interpretation. And not all their interpretations were wrong.
Of course this is the world of the scholar and experts on the manuscripts because these writings help them even with word meaning from ancient Hebrew and Greek text. Knowing how they used certain words is helpful in ascertaining the authors intended meaning of a word. Those ancient Rabbinical writings are some of the best examples from the time.

And not all their interpretations were wrong. I would think it would be of value to research what various ancient Jewish interpretations exist concerning Gen 3:16. Reading them is not going to taint you. You would be able to recognize which ones are getting it and which ones are off target. There were oral traditions that seem to be repeated by Jesus. Where did the information about Abrahams Bosom come from? I think you can only find that in some of the rabbinical writings from the time.

 

[soberxp]

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;

My understanding is what God wants to express here is that Adam and Eve left the garden of Eden that God is sorrow, because God created life, not death.
Eve's pain in childbirth implies God's sorrow in this matter and the truth that God wants to educate Eve what meaning of life to death which is sorrow.


and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

God's purpose may be because Eve listened to the serpent, So God wants Eve to listen to Adam,Because it was Eve, not Adam, who was seduced first. or This may not be a command, it may be just a statement of consequence @Dino246

 

[Hazelelponi]

I have read the entire discourse... my stance is unchangeable.

The agree to disagree part wasn't because I don't enjoy discussion, but when discussion devolves it does no one any good to continue on, leastwise our souls and anything Godly and good to be gained ends.

So I'm walking. Thanks for the conversation.

I thought I should add as I've just reread my post here, that I'm only ending the discussion with Dino.

I'm still interested in continuing on in discussion with @Katia

 

[Katia]

You speak like a foreign born person..

Interesting. Where are you from? How does an American speak?

 

[Katia]

I thought I should add as I've just reread my post here, that I'm only ending the discussion with Dino.

I'm still interested in continuing on in discussion with @Katia

What I say is simply my own opinion and I make no claim to being an expert of any sort. If I had long enough to live, I would want to become an Archeologist, especially of ancient pre Judaistic religions. Some Academics believe the Garden of Eden to lie in Southern Iraq..

 

[Hazelelponi]

Interesting. Where are you from? How does an American speak?

It's just in patterns of speech. I'm from Missouri, it's where I was born, but my parents were immigrants as was my ex-husband and pretty much everyone at the mosques I've attended. I held the English classes for the women at the mosque and another woman held the Arabic classes, although my classes were the most popular as most were foreign born there.

 

[Amanuensis]

Interesting. Where are you from? How does an American speak?

You might want to consider "Ancient Near East Manuscripts" Even if you don't live long enough to complete the degree, it will be a fun journey. I might join you.

 

[Hazelelponi]

What I say is simply my own opinion and I make no claim to being an expert of any sort. If I had long enough to live, I would want to become an Archeologist, especially of ancient pre Judaistic religions. Some Academics believe the Garden of Eden to lie in Southern Iraq..

We all are only voicing our opinions based upon what we know from life and experience.

After I understood salvation and was saved I began deep study of Scripture and haven't stopped yet.. though I might have slowed somewhat. That was 7-1/2 years ago so I feel I have a solid grasp of the various concepts found within.

It's not always easy to grasp prior to being saved. I had a most difficult time grasping the central major point of salvation through Christ, but once I understood that the floodgates opened and everything else was easy for me.

So I feel qualified to speak on these topics of both Islam and Christianity, as a former Muslim with a solid background in that, as well as having a good grasp of Christianity and having a Christian family now through my Christian husband.

I feel I can help address any confusion you may have as to our Christian faith, and dispell your misconceptions of Islam.

 

[Katia]

You might want to consider "Ancient Near East Manuscripts" Even if you don't live long enough to complete the degree, it will be a fun journey. I might join you.

So far I read only the KJV but I have studied others. The KJV may be flawed but I know many of the places where argument happens. I have "The Books of Enoch" but have not started to read it yet. I am not always sure how much of the OT the Jews accept. And, it seems that there are lots of different sects of Jews. I studied Islam for almost a decade. There is a huge disparity between what I was taught in the Mosque and what others teach about it.

Some can be quite condemning of Muslims but actually know very little. Toward the end of my involvement I grew fed up with their Fatwas.

 

[Katia]

We all are only voicing our opinions based upon what we know from life and experience.

After I understood salvation and was saved I began deep study of Scripture and haven't stopped yet.. though I might have slowed somewhat. That was 7-1/2 years ago so I feel I have a solid grasp of the various concepts found within.

It's not always easy to grasp prior to being saved. I had a most difficult time grasping the central major point of salvation through Christ, but once I understood that the floodgates opened and everything else was easy for me.

So I feel qualified to speak on these topics of both Islam and Christianity, as a former Muslim with a solid background in that, as well as having a good grasp of Christianity and having a Christian family now through my Christian husband.

I feel I can help address any confusion you may have as to our Christian faith, and dispell your misconceptions of Islam.

I don't feel confused. Where are you from?

 

[Hazelelponi]

I don't feel confused. Where are you from?

The where I'm from is answered in post #86 (sorry I'm unsure how to link the post here, but it's two posts above your post that I'm replying to)

You say you're not confused but you're here on a Christian forum, asking a question about the interpretation of a Bible verse, frequently making reference to the Quran and saying you think it's somehow more explanatory of the Word of God than is the Word of God (aka the Holy Scripture, aka the Bible) itself, plus your posts come across as being fairly enamored of Islam.

I do, as a general rule call that confused.

i don't hold it against you, I know a lot about the darkness in confusion, I've been there in spades.

But I would like to help you. Coming to a saving faith in Christ absolutely changed my life, it's the most beautiful thing imaginable to be this close to the God of all creation.

So anything I can help you to better understand I'd like to do that.

Why is this understanding of this particular verse of interest to you?

 

[Katia]

The where I'm from is answered in post #86 (sorry I'm unsure how to link the post here, but it's two posts above your post that I'm replying to)

You say you're not confused but you're here on a Christian forum, asking a question about the interpretation of a Bible verse, frequently making reference to the Quran and saying you think it's somehow more explanatory of the Word of God than is the Word of God (aka the Holy Scripture, aka the Bible) itself, plus your posts come across as being fairly enamored of Islam.

I do, as a general rule call that confused.

i don't hold it against you, I know a lot about the darkness in confusion, I've been there in spades.

But I would like to help you. Coming to a saving faith in Christ absolutely changed my life, it's the most beautiful thing imaginable to be this close to the God of all creation.

So anything I can help you to better understand I'd like to do that.

Why is this understanding of this particular verse of interest to you?

Missouri. We don't need to talk any more.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Missouri. We don't need to talk any more.

and why would that be?

 

[Katia]

You might want to consider "Ancient Near East Manuscripts" Even if you don't live long enough to complete the degree, it will be a fun journey. I might join you.

I don't live near a Theological School. I'm concerned that Portland State College wouldn't be up to the task. I'm doing a word search for Ancient Near East Manuscripts and I find a few books on the subject. Cambridge may have some course work on that. I will read and do my best.

 

[Magenta]

and why would that be?

Because you have found her out.

 

[Ted01]

How do Jews interpret, what Christians interpret as Genesis 3:16?

How do "Christians" interpret it?

 

[Katia]

How do "Christians" interpret it?

No, how do Jews interpret that passage?

 

[Cameron143]

So you would rather believe those who attack the Bible than those who believe it. Since Moses was on earth around 1500 B.C. you are off by about 800 years. And since both Orthodox Jews and conservative Christians believe that Moses wrote the Torah, you are in a very small minority.

Getting back to Genesis 3:16, it is not exactly rocket science. So let's see what it says and believe that what was written was divinely inspired: Unto the woman [Eve] he [God] said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

So what we see is that Eve -- being the first woman who sinned -- brought a curse upon all women.
1. Sorrows would be increased for women in many way
2. Conceptions would also increase so women could bear many children
3. Child-bearing would be painful
4. The wife's desire would be towards her husband
5. Husbands would have authority over wives, and wives would need to submit to their own husband. [This teaching is also found in the New Testament].

Nice explanation. 1 addtion: this is what 1 Timothy 2:15 is referring to in #1. There was a thread the other day about it.
And a comment on #4. This is saying women will actually desire to be in the place of authority of the man. This is exemplified in the women's rights movement. But it manifests in all marriages to some degree.

 

[Ted01]

No, how do Jews interpret that passage?

I have no idea how Jews interpret the passage. And not really sure how Christians interpret it either.
Thought that you might know the Christian zeitgeist?

 

[Dino246]

Nice explanation. 1 addtion: this is what 1 Timothy 2:15 is referring to in #1. There was a thread the other day about it.
And a comment on #4. This is saying women will actually desire to be in the place of authority of the man. This is exemplified in the women's rights movement. But it manifests in all marriages to some degree.

Your comments betray an a priori belief in a certain interpretation of these passages.