The Age of Miracles, still going or not?

[Doll]

People have chosen to downgrade what God can and does do the amount of unbelief in the church is astonishing

A sign of the times.

 

[GWH]

The thing is evidence is not how faith works, you only see the evidence based on if you can believe even without any evidence, the bible itself testifies that God is the same today as he was yesterday so if he healed the sick and cured the blind back then he does it today that is the simple fact of scripture never once does the bible say he will no longer do such things not even once so if it doesn't say that then why should we believe he still does not do these things today?

Even just a couple weeks ago I got to see healing done through prayer not for myself but for a dear friend so I know he still works in this way but I believed even before I got to see it for myself but the reason I got to see it was because I had faith and believed even though I had never seen it for myself before then

This was the first time I have seen a miracle but had I not had faith and believed then I never would have seen it for myself

Regarding "The thing is evidence is not how faith works, you only see the evidence based on if you can believe even without any evidence".

Heavens no, Blain! There is more evidence for Christianity than for atheism! Atheists are the ones who disbelieve without any good reasons!

 

[Carlyw]

Peter, quoting Joel in Acts 2 says that in the last days God will pour out His Spirit on all flesh, your sons and daughters shall prophesy.... Those unfamiliar with it can look up the passage. So an outpouring of God's Spirit in the last day is Biblical.

And this woman believed in a last days outpouring of the Spirit. But you say that she had Gnostic beliefs about wisdom. So therefore, since her teachings were similar to Peter's in the book of Acts, would you reject Peter and the Book of Acts as Gnostic?

I hope not. But I see this sort of guilt-by-vague-association or not.

I am not familiar with this woman. I have heard of William Branham. Was he influential on Pentecostals and Charismatics? The Pentecostal movement existed before William Branham, and the Oneness movement had split off fairly early on (forcing the Assemblies of God to decide on a Trinitarian doctrinal statement which excluded the Oneness movement) before Branham came along.

There were also preachers praying for the sick in the 1800s. The laying on of hands for sickness was practiced already, a topic already taught in scripture. There were people prophesying, and there were healings before William Branham's crusades. Maybe his doing evangelistic meetings with healing started a new trend, but having such meetings isn't sinful or 'Gnostic.'

I haven't researched this woman, but I am just about as skeptical of a 'discernment' site as I am of fringe Charismatics because I see so much twisting of ideas on some of them. That being said, I am not familiar with this site. I do wonder if it is from the former Branhamite vlogger who I have seen criticize Branham and try to argue much of the Charismatic movement practices came from his influence. A lot of it is very loose guilt-by-association.

Most Pentecostals, if you ask them, haven't heard of William Branham, and while if he had gone to a particular town back in the post-war era, there might have been some Pentecostals there that went to a few meetings when he came to town, but there churches already existed, and it's not like he created their doctrine.

One of the videos said Christ for the Nation's personal prayer training, for praying for the sick and others originated with Branham. While I am not sure of his influence, I know of a preacher who died in the 1930's who had a kind of training for praying for the sick and praying with people. The vlogger said that doing this was taking over the role of the Holy Spirit and had no basis in scripture... but the general idea actually tracks very well with James 5-- an individual, who does not have to be an elder, can hear confession of sin, pray for that individual that he or she might be healed, pray effectually and fervently for another, seek to convert one who errs from the truth. This is all in line with James. Now, as for particulars with some of the trainings-- assuming spirits named after problems are behind problems, or the idea that demons can get into someone's life through 'pain', I'm sure there is room for criticism, but not all these one-on-one prayer counseling trainings have that, and they did not all originate with Branham either.

As for the idea that this woman was promoting a Gnostic deity called 'Sophia', I would definitely want to see the quote. Wisdom is personified as a woman in the book of Proverbs. I can see how a fault-finding person or an ignorant person could misinterpret commentary on that... and also how some individuals would assume guilt by association based on the loosest association (e.g. quoting a book) with someone who held to such a view. I did not find the evidence compelling, just in the footnotes and the text of the website evidence for accusing someone of holding to such a view. You might not want to repeat others' accusations against an individual if you do not see the evidence yourself lest you sin.

I actually read 3 of her books, but would have to dive back in to find the quotations as it was online, and I do not own them.

I will respond later, freind thank you for your well written response and for the respect you have shown me.

 

[lrs68]

People have chosen to downgrade what God can and does do the amount of unbelief in the church is astonishing

Actually Joel 2 speaks about the latter rain with Gifts, Signs, Wonders and Revelation tells us the Very Elect will "Fall Away" from the Faith.

So even though we're seeing amazing things that only God can do we're seeing those who are Saved denying God and slipping away from the Faith.

 

[Blain]

Regarding "The thing is evidence is not how faith works, you only see the evidence based on if you can believe even without any evidence".

Heavens no, Blain! There is more evidence for Christianity than for atheism! Atheists are the ones who disbelieve without any good reasons!

Well what I mean is that faith works differently than what say an athiest would believe they require evidence and so do cessationists but faith is a forumla that does not rely on evidence in order to work faith in fact is the evidence not yet seen but if one has faith and believes even without any evidence then that is when faith shows us thw wonders of God

 

[Blain]

Actually Joel 2 speaks about the latter rain with Gifts, Signs, Wonders and Revelation tells us the Very Elect will "Fall Away" from the Faith.

So even though we're seeing amazing things that only God can do we're seeing those who are Saved denying God and slipping away from the Faith.

Yes this is very true the falling away is happening and has been happening but at the same time a massive revival has been going on as well
But those who are falling away from faith they are doing so without even realizing it

I mean just look at the disbelief we see in the church these days the mere fact that people no longer believe in miracles and signs and wonders shows the state of the church

 

[Blade]

"The Age of Miracles, still going or not?"

I like this song "Call Your Name" Jesus

I walk by faith live by faith. Many things are said our enemy Satan does but its impossible. God made a promise in Luke 11:13 and anyone that asks Him for the holy Spirit that is exactly what they will get period. A man of God talked about where nurse and Doctors would bring sick dying and were healed. Haha that song "I call that name JESUS". Even that man of Gods daughter was not healed yet it never touched his Faith in what God promised. We walk by faith we live by Faith not sight.

I just watched sorry the late Pat Robertson son talk about how God rebuked him. He was somewhere and this woman next to him had MS and he prayed for a word from the lord for her and nothing. He did it a second time nothing. The 3rd time hes wondering.. come on God where are you and to that God did speak "do you think I want this for her?" He said it was very clear what He said and was not happy with how he was asking GOD.

Then goes on to tell how part of his body felt and the effects as if he had MS. The woman next to him "Whats happening" Yeah she was healed. We seem to like to blame GOD for why this or that didn't happen. If we had faith the size of a mustard seed.. Like Peter and John said "faith in that name". We say many things when it comes to GOD yet do we really believe it? You pray you stand on His word and the enemy comes in right away to take it. Do walk by how you feel what you see or His word? This can take moments or even years but His truth is the same "shall recover". Doubt will always stop hinder Him. Yet so many times... so many times He moves on them.. so much mercy and grace.... wow.

This is no doctrine not silly group.. its what He said... and "go and sin no more" is about the sickness coming back its.. sin gives the enemy right to move in.. to act. Its why we repent get up dust off. We give no place to the devil. So yes He is out there doing what He did before He came and died for the sin of the World.

 

[Gideon300]

Agree



The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the Trinity. He does nothing whatsoever that does not reveal or attest to God/Jesus. Perhaps study up on all that the Holy Spirit does. You might be pleasantly surprised

I was baptised in the Holy Spirit Christmas Eve 1974. I have some idea of what the Holy Spirit's role is. And yes, He takes what is of Christ and makes it known to us. It's one of the keys to discernment. Who is being glorified? It should not be the Holy Spirit.

A number of our small fellowship investigated the so-called Toronto Blessing. It was a deception. People talk about replacement theology. The TB was another version, that the Holy Spirit had replaced Jesus. This was a doctrine promoted by Australia's Assemblies of God denomination. It originates in the pit of hell.

 

[pinebeach]

I was baptised in the Holy Spirit Christmas Eve 1974. I have some idea of what the Holy Spirit's role is. And yes, He takes what is of Christ and makes it known to us. It's one of the keys to discernment. Who is being glorified? It should not be the Holy Spirit.

A number of our small fellowship investigated the so-called Toronto Blessing. It was a deception. People talk about replacement theology. The TB was another version, that the Holy Spirit had replaced Jesus. This was a doctrine promoted by Australia's Assemblies of God denomination. It originates in the pit of hell.

Well good, but did I say anything about the Holy Spirit being glorified? Not sure why you would bring that up. I think most people know about the so called Toronto blessing and the animal noises etc. In my post I suggested you might study about all the Holy Spirit does.

Here is what I had in mind:

33 THINGS THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES
1. He Helps Us (Romans 8:26)
2. He Guides Us (John 16:13)
3. He Teaches Us (John 14:26)
4. He Speaks (Revelation 2:7)
5. He Reveals (1 Corinthians 2:10)
6. He Instructs (Acts 8:29)
7. He Testifies of Jesus (John 15:26)
8. He Comforts Us (Acts 9:31)
9. He Calls Us (Acts 13:2)
10. He Fills Us (Acts 4:31)
11. He Strengthens Us (Ephesians 3:16)
12. He Prays For Us (Romans 8:26)
13. He Prophesies Through Us (Rev 22:17)
14. He Bears Witness To The Truth (Romans 9:1)
15. He Brings Joy (1 Thessalonians 1:6)
16. He Brings Freedom (2 Corinthians 3:17)
17. He Helps To Obey (1 Peter 1:22)
18. He Calls For Jesus’ Return (Revelation 22:17)
19. He Transforms Us (2 Corinthians 3:18)
20. He Lives In Us (1 Corinthians 3:16)
21. He Frees Us (Romans 8:2)
22. He Renews Us (Titus 3:5)
23. He Produces Fruit In Us (Galatians 5:22-23)
24. He Gives Gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-10)
25. He Leads Us (Romans 8:14)
26. He Convicts (John 16:8)
27. He Sanctifies Us (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
28. He Empowers Us (Acts 1:8)
29. He Unites Us (Ephesians 4:3-4)
30. He Seals Us (Ephesians 1:13)
31. He Gives Us Access To The Father (Ephesians 2:18)
32. He Enables Us To Wait (Galatians 5:5)
33. He Casts Out Demons (Matthews 12:28)

source

 

[wattie]

The deity of the Holy Spirit needs to be upheld here.

In Revelation it is the HS speaking to the churches, with Jesus and the Father.

The Holy Spirit dwells 'in the midst' of a congregation of NT believers gathered as a church. Jesus says He does this..see Matthew 28. A contradiction?

No.. the Triune God works in different roles and it can be the Father Son and HS doing the same thing at the same time.

The Holy Spirit seals believers, guides, rebukes, was there in the beginning with the Father and Son in creation.

The HS is fully God and co-equal with the Father and Son as one Triune God.

I dont quite understand Gideon in saying the Holy Spirit is not Lord.

The Father sent the Holy Spirit.

This was also Jesus sending the Holy Spirit.

Does that make the HS not fully God?

No.. there is subjection in the Trinity..but not inferiority.

 

[shittim]

I Corinthians 12 teaches that gifts are given to members of the body of Christ as the Spirit wills. If Peter walked on the Sea of Galilee, that doesn't mean all the rest of the 12 or all believers did. And if John was boiled in oil and survived, as tradition says, that doesn't mean all the apostles or all believers are to survive being boiled in oil.

"The gift" is the one gift of Holy Spirit, just as Jesus received from John Baptist and imparted to the 12, they to the 70, unto this day. People talking about Him miss relationship talking with Him.
best wishes

 

[GWH]

Well what I mean is that faith works differently than what say an athiest would believe they require evidence and so do cessationists but faith is a forumla that does not rely on evidence in order to work faith in fact is the evidence not yet seen but if one has faith and believes even without any evidence then that is when faith shows us thw wonders of God

If faith was not based on evidence, then why did Jesus work miracles? Just for fun?!
Why did Peter cite SIT as fulfilling the prophecy of Joel? Just to make conversation?
Why did Stephen give his speech to the Sanhedrin? Just to hear himself talk?
Why did Paul witness to Jewish leaders from morning till evening? Just to pass the time of day?
Why did Isaiah say, “Come now, let us reason together,” says the Lord? (Isa. 1:18a)
Why did Jesus say “They hated me without reason.”? (John 15:25)
Why was it that "[Paul] reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.”? (Acts 17:17)
Why did Paul say “We do, however, speak a message of wisdom [right reasoning] among the mature…”? (1Cor. 2:6)
Why did Paul say “When I was a child… I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.”? (1Cor. 13:11)
Why did Peter say “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.”? (1Pet. 3:15b)

There is plenty of evidence to see, with creation staring us in the face continually.
What is NOT seen is undeniable proof for the unwilling.

Other than that, I agree with what you said.

 

[Blain]

If faith was not based on evidence, then why did Jesus work miracles? Just for fun?!
Why did Peter cite SIT as fulfilling the prophecy of Joel? Just to make conversation?
Why did Stephen give his speech to the Sanhedrin? Just to hear himself talk?
Why did Paul witness to Jewish leaders from morning till evening? Just to pass the time of day?
Why did Isaiah say, “Come now, let us reason together,” says the Lord? (Isa. 1:18a)
Why did Jesus say “They hated me without reason.”? (John 15:25)
Why was it that "[Paul] reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.”? (Acts 17:17)
Why did Paul say “We do, however, speak a message of wisdom [right reasoning] among the mature…”? (1Cor. 2:6)
Why did Paul say “When I was a child… I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.”? (1Cor. 13:11)
Why did Peter say “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.”? (1Pet. 3:15b)

There is plenty of evidence to see, with creation staring us in the face continually.
What is NOT seen is undeniable proof for the unwilling.

Other than that, I agree with what you said.

Ok you make some fair points I think I understand what you are saying now

 

[TrustandObey]

You disagree that God has empowered people to do miracles? Do you think God did not empower Moses to split the Red Sea? Do you disagree with the idea that God empowered Peter to walk on water? That's a very strange thing to disagree with.




This is a Christian forum on the Bible. Posters here typically accept scripture as proof of a statement. If you do not believe that many great miracles have been done, maybe you should read the Bible.


It is very telling that I started off presenting a case we should all be able to agree on before moving a doctrinal point of I Corinthians 12.

A

You are a silly man.

I never wrote any of this. You are simply making up comments and then attacking them.

 

[GWH]

Ok you make some fair points I think I understand what you are saying now

That is what I say now, and why I say such is because when I was an impressionable teenager I was tempted to believe
that Christians had blind faith and atheists had scientific facts, so I read the Scriptures completely through and learned
that the opposite is true: That everyone operates by fallible faith, but Christianity is more reasonable per the Propensity Principle.

 

[presidente]

On the other hand, it can be understood as Paul realizing the age of miracles was going to end with the death of the apostles,
possibly because he was unable to heal himself.

That may be evidence that Paul did not heal 'at hill.'

Paul was sick early in his ministry, before he first ministered to the Galatians we was writing to. It's likely that was Acts 13 or 14, but certainly he delivered letters to Galatians in Acts 16. After that it refers to the unusual miracles God did through Paul in Ephesus, and healing all the sick brought to him on Malta, toward the end of the

Eph. 3:16-19 does indeed imply that love is more important than miracles and indeed most important--
and the more excellent eternal way per 1Cor. 13.

1. The verses say nothing about love being more important than miracles.
2. If love is more important than something, it doesn't mean that thing is no longer needed.

If love is more important than brushing your teeth or teaching the Bible, does that mean no one brushes their teeth? Does it mean no one reads the Bible.


16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

The casual observer who sees someone cited verses for some idea might think that the Bible supports their idea. Now, if the verses in no way support the idea, should one site the verses as if they were evidence? Is that a loving thing to do?

 

[presidente]

You are a silly man.

I never wrote any of this. You are simply making up comments and then attacking them.

If I misquoted you, show me how. You weren't paying enough enough to what I said, and disagreed with ideas that were Biblically true. I pointed it out. There is no need to insult me.

 

[presidente]

"The gift" is the one gift of Holy Spirit, just as Jesus received from John Baptist and imparted to the 12, they to the 70, unto this day. People talking about Him miss relationship talking with Him.
best wishes

You just talked (or wrote) about Him.

 

[shittim]

and I just did so again.

 

[presidente]

I actually read 3 of her books, but would have to dive back in to find the quotations as it was online, and I do not own them.

I will respond later, freind thank you for your well written response and for the respect you have shown me.

Is the assertion about a Gnostic goddess based on her writings or 'guilt by association' because she sited an author who referred to the virgin sophia? There is medieval 'Christian mysticism' that treats associates sophia with virginity, I've read. Proverbs personifies sophia as a female who cries out, who rejoiced at the creation. It could be the author she liked to write in an esoteric and literary manner and wasn't referring to Gnostic beliefs.