Being Rich tends you to do evil things?

Jason0047 · Jul 22, 2015

In other words, if you plan on making money (so as to provide for yourself and for your family), it has to be with the thinking that you:

(a) Do not desire to be rich (But you are merely looking for that right amount that God will bless you with).
(b) You do not have a desire to place any treasures here upon this Earth.
(c) Your money has to be completely dedicate to GOD's purposes.

seoulsearch · Jul 22, 2015

Well Jason,

As others here have said, it's more about the condition of someone's heart rather than what they have.

1. If you have more than someone else, you are "rich" compared to them. I'm sure you live according to all the principles you're adamant about repeating over and over here and distribute your own wealth accordingly. Out of curiosity, how and where do you choose to give away your wealth?

Because what, according to you, would qualify as "rich"? Any person, believe it or not, is "rich" compared to someone else in the world.

2. If a person had only his own life or one possession in all the world and God asked him for it, he would be expected to give it up in faith. It doesn't matter what or how much you have, what matters is whether you're willing to make God first above everything.

PoetMary · Jul 22, 2015

It's interesting to me that people associate materialism with the wealthy. I don't think your actual wealth matters. It's just as easy for a poor person to be obsessed and "owned" by material possessions--although the "ownership" may be based more in envy than actual possession of these objects.

Personally, I think materialism is one of the significant problems of modern American culture. It's a problem that has seeped into the church and is rarely, if ever, addressed. How many of you hear sermons about how you don't need another yet another t-shirt or pair of shoes? A lot of conservative churches have sermon after sermon about how women should dress....but there aren't many sermons about why someone would spend so much money for designer goods. Lots of churchgoers get decked out in their designer goods for services. There are some churches, in fact, that encourage their members to engage in sort of spiritually sanctioned consumerism.

What's interesting is that we totally have the ability to eradicate deep poverty in the world. We know how to do it, and much of the world has made strides in improving the lives of people. And yet, there are places where people still suffer significantly. It seems a rather clever trick of satan, not to make the church poor, but to distract the members with bright and shiny objects.

seoulsearch · Jul 22, 2015

P.S. (For Jason...)

You're typing and answering on a computer or some other sort of technologically advanced device that runs on electricity, that many people do not have access to. I'm also assuming you don't have to walk hours and hours to draw water from a well for daily living. You probably just go to a faucet and turn it on.

You DO realize that YOU are definitely one of the "rich" you've kept going on and on about, don't you, with privileges far greater than vast numbers of people in the world?

What is God asking you to give away? And how do you personally apply all the principles you've listed to your own life?

I'm just always curious as to how those who adamantly know what to do and are even more adamant about telling others... carry it out in their own living.

Jason0047 · Jul 22, 2015

In other words, a Christian cannot be rich because they will just end up giving that money in complete dedication to God's purposes to either start:

(a) A charity.
(b) A Missionary group.
(c) A Christian book publishing company (That spreads the good news).

Or:

Merely give it away towards church missions and charities that help the poor and to organizations or churches that help feed the sheep.

seoulsearch · Jul 22, 2015

For those who do not know, I was not born in this country (the USA) but was abandoned by my birth parents when I was a few days old. I was found inside a cardboard box in front of a public place.

It's very interesting to me how people define "rich".

Did my birth parents give up on me because they were poor and felt they couldn't care for a child? I won't know until I get to heaven.

But compared to so many other babies/children who are abandoned, I had a makeshift shelter (a box), and a chance to be found (which I was.) Many others have much less than that, such as those are simply (and literally) tossed in the trash. Compared to this, I was "rich".

I always find the ways that others compare poverty and wealth (and accuse each other of being so) to be quite intriguing, because I have slightly different views.

If you have $10 in your pocket that you don't immediately need for a life necessity and the person next to you doesn't, you are richer than that person. Should you give him/her your $10?

I see people railing at "the rich" an awful lot. But for some reason, they don't see (or act upon the principles they preach) themselves.

Jason0047 · Jul 22, 2015

seoulsearch said:

While that sounds like a nice excuse to defend one hoarding tons of cash or to place your treasures here upon this Earth, it really is not an excuse to do so at all. One is merely meeting the basic needs if they:

(a) Have a house or apartment (So as to have a meet up place for other believers). The disciples were allowed to own homes. A house is a place for you to eat and sleep normally and to have a place for your family.
(b) Have a car. For a car is like a horse. Both require maintanence so as to travel. This mode of transportation can meet the basic needs of you and your family and it can help spread the gospel.
(c) Computer or Computerized device. Nowadays, many places require you to have some kind of computerized device to be able to do your job better. I know with my work that this is the case; And you would think that my job did not require such a thing (But it does). In addition, computers are helpful to educating ourselves and our children in how to get by in every day life to even spreading the good news. Computers can allow us to have fellowship online and it can even reach those who are lost.

For one can build a dirt cheap one bedroom log cabin for themself.
One can buy a cheap used car.
One can buy a 300 dollar computer.

So I do not see that as being rich but merely as meeting basic needs. One is not hoarding these things as treasures for themselves. An example of making a treasure out of these types of things would be say:

(a) Building a huge mansion with tons of bedrooms and facilties that one does not need that cries.... "Hey look everybody! See how rich I am!"
(b) A bunch of expensive cars that are just fancy looking to satisfy your ego and to be the talk of the town.
(c) A super computer that not too many people have (Sort of like the one from Superman 3) and or to have a ton of computers in your home that you really do not need.

But does not the rest of the world who is starving and poor consider us as being rich for having basic things like a house, a car, and a computer? They may think that, but they are also not working hard like we are in most cases at a job that demands alot out of them. We are also not hoarding these things but we are meeting a basic needs in order to function better.

Jason0047 · Jul 22, 2015

seoulsearch said:

You have my sympathies for your situation. But again, that does not change what is in the Word of God; And it does not change man's greed to hoard things for himself rather than just meeting basic needs and then giving the rest to those who are in need. For it is about equality. That is why those disciples who had second homes had sold them. They all distributed so as to meet the needs of the church. It is about equality. Not hoarding like the rich do. Therein lies the difference.

seoulsearch · Jul 22, 2015

Jason0047 said:

I'm guessing you haven't seen or read much about the rest of the world.

Jason0047 · Jul 22, 2015

seoulsearch said:

The standard is not what the world says, but the standard is what does God's Word say? Do we see apostles hoarding treasures here upon this Earth when Jesus specifically told God's people not to do that? Does not 1 Timothy 6 say that we are to chase after righteousness instead of riches? I know. I was in your situation before with the thinking that I could be rich and be my own god here upon this Earth (In addition to serving Jesus). I used to be a part of a multi level marketing group a while after I got saved. They sell you on the idea of being rich, and looking up to people who are rich (Whether they believe iin God or not). This is wrong and you know it deep down.

bondservant · Jul 22, 2015

Seoulsearch you and Moses have a lot in common lol. It's not how we enter this world but how we leave it.......good for you, blessings.

Jason0047 · Jul 22, 2015

bondservant said:

I fail to see how Moses promoted the idea that we could hoard riches here upon this Earth. God wants us to live for Him and He does not want us to live for serving money and to gather useless junk here upon this Earth.

Jason0047 · Jul 22, 2015

ember · Jul 22, 2015

JASON

this is just utter baloney

no one has said they think it is right to hoard tons of anything

you know, people might respect your posts more if you did not exagerate, twist and add to what they say in order to make a point that pertains more to the way you think then the way the rest of us think apparently

do you think all your exagerating makes points for you in heaven?

walk in the light the way you tell others to walk...stop adding to or even subtracting from, what others say

now if you really cannot do that? perhaps it might help if you read with the expectancy to UNDERSTAND and a DESIRE TO BE TRUTHFUL before us and God

Because Jason? Seriously? right now, we just do not see you as honest or truthful

for your own sake, I hope you do not now resort to saying I attacked you or that you are suffering for your beliefs

In fact, you DO suffer for your beliefs but that is of your own making

fredjames · Jul 22, 2015

fredjames said:

This also 'referrers' to those who are 'witnessing' grace and Truth to others and in church/a gathering.

fredjames · Jul 22, 2015

fredjames said:

Thank you for the 'support' according to CHRIST of the New Covenant/Testament/Agreement, as everything written in them, to 'practice' and 'abide' and 'bear much fruit' and 'your fruit must abide'.

GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless you all with HIS kindness and peace.

PoetMary · Jul 22, 2015

Jason0047 said:

This statement is so unbelievably biased as to be 1) absurd 2) unkind and 3) intellectually dishonest.

Many of the poorest areas in the world are war torn or violent areas. These areas lack available "jobs" (as we would traditionally define them) because they are areas that lack the infrastructure and stability to support traditional manufacturing. Additionally, many of these areas have competing evil factions for the resources of the area. For example, the Congo comes to mind. Here, warring factions will take over areas to gain access to minerals that are coveted by "Western" nations (for electronics primarily). They demoralize the people with unheard of violence (particularly against women and children). Is it these people whom you claim are "not working hard like we are...", I wonder.

The presumption that the poor do not want to work hard is a kind of self-serving falsehood. If one presumes that the poor are poor because they are unwilling to work, then there is no moral obligation to care for the poor...after all, they can't be bothered to care for themselves, so we have a perfect excuse to ignore them.

I would recommend that you educate yourself about the work that is happening in the poorest areas of the world to rid these areas of poverty. For example, the proliferation of microfinancing in Africa. Allowing the poorest people access to extremely modest sums of money (like the price of a couple of fancy lattes) provides them a means to create a small business.

There's an organization out of Kenya called Jamii Bora that began serving people from the slums. As a result of their efforts, they have 170,000 members who have taken out loans, have access to extremely affordable health care insurance, and have built community housing that allows people to move from the slums into safer homes. This is not government provided amenities. These people create business, pay back small loans, and then go on to get other loans to create more or bigger businesses. In the meantime, they save money so they can move into better housing. Sound familiar....you know...kind of like that bootstrapping American dream we hear so much about.

The shame is that in the United States of America we have megachurches with enough capital to create microfinance institutions that could provide loans to create jobs in very poor areas of the U.S. Inner city Detroit springs to mind. Our churches have the means to serve the poor in incredible ways. Not with handouts, but with skills and access. It's a shame that so many leaders within the church prefer to feather their own nests with rolls royces and jets and fancy homes, all the while telling the poor to keep planting money seeds.

ember · Jul 22, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Again, you are distorting the scriptures

When Ananias presented money from the sale of the property what did Peter say?

Eh? what did he say? he said this, from Acts 5:

3Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

His sin was LYING about the money...but Peter, an Apostle, told him THE MONEY WAS HIS BOTH BEFORE AND AFTER

Ananias had no obligation to turn it all over

Jason, your gospel is not the gospel of the new Testament

You are completely wrong here and now I am wondering how you are going to twist it further to avoid admitting to your error and your personal interpretation

bondservant · Jul 22, 2015

Jason, I was referring to her being found in a cardboard box in a public place.

I don't know why but you seem to step on my toes a little to much, I have seen a lot of your shaky ground post and threads and have tried to come to you defense in some.
You seem to manage to be blinded by what's being said on a lot of matters and plus that post was directed to her.
Jason please don't ever mistake my patients for weekends
Peace to you and yours

ember · Jul 22, 2015

Do like Jesus said Jason

Sell it ALL and give it to the poor lest you be called a hypocrite for telling others how much they can have and what they should do with it

Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." Matthew 19:21

See, we are not the ones on here interpreting the New Testament in a way that we believe enables us to condemn everyone else and get busy clearing logs in other peoples eyes

No...that is YOUR calling isn't it?

So, yuh know, get yourself an ebay account and get busy and then contact us again when you arrive in Bangledesh to aid the poor

Or for that matter, you can stay in the US and go to Appalachia or something

Being Rich tends you to do evil things?

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