Am I wrong!?!

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#81
Again, read what JESUS said, His words are the only thing that matters!!
I have begged people who claim they love and believe Jesus to please learn of Him as He invited all to learn of Him...…..they will not do it......they quote Paul, and this is their downfall into that abyss of darkness and confusion.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#82
The OSAS is based off of Paul' Grace message. But that message is not what Jesus taught. He taught we are saved by Mercy!! So no, I only care what God commanded, not what Paul assumed.
Since you reject Paul, I'll offer you some verses for you to consider.

John 1:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Acts 15:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


John 1:15-17 King James Version (KJV)
15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
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#83
I have begged people who claim they love and believe Jesus to please learn of Him as He invited all to learn of Him...…..they will not do it......they quote Paul, and this is their downfall into that abyss of darkness and confusion.


I'll be completely honest, if God claimed eating animal dung is good for me i would gulp it down in a heartbeat. In other words, we have what God said. Why would we listen to anything else? God told us how to live, how to preach, teach, testify, pray. God said He had Mercy upon us. God gave us the complete how to in order to get to heaven. This is right from the mouth of God. So why would I obey someone else when I have God's very own words telling me how to get to heaven? I would be retarded to ignore what God said because someone else makes it sound like a cake walk..
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,080
3,007
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#84
Are you telling me that no seed will be planted? lol God can part seas, whats a little mud? :)

Had you listened and learned from Jesus you would know exactly what I am saying, but you fhave not, apparently.
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#85
Since you reject Paul, I'll offer you some verses for you to consider.

John 1:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Acts 15:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


John 1:15-17 King James Version (KJV)
15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.



And Jesus said, I had MERCY upon you!!
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#88
And Jesus said, I had MERCY upon you!!
I do not reject His mercy, clearly revealed in scripture. You, however, reject His grace clearly revealed in scripture. Why do you keep shouting this point on mercy, I do not know. There is grace and mercy in the Gospel.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,080
3,007
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#89
Who is telling you to follow Paul? What is this following that you speak of? Follow God! God speaks through Paul. SO LISTEN. I don't know why you are trying to pit one of God's apostles against Christ and His Church, when God put that person, Paul, in that role for us.

Why do you reject the apostleship and role that the Lord has given to the apostle Paul, in light of clear scripture? That is the real issue.
You speak of Paul as though he had been prophesied by God in the writings.

You also speak of Paul as though he is one of the Twelve...he is not.

He is not one of the twelve names on the foundations of the New Jerusalem.

You say He speaks God's Word, mayibe? But the only sousrce of his being chosen is from his lips and his pen, not from previous mention.

Paul could be construed as one sent out, for this is the meaning of the word Apostle, but he was never mentioned before he wrote about himself.

No one, not you, not your companions in this dcotrine, can say in truth that Pul is sent by God.......
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
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#90
I do not reject His mercy, clearly revealed in scripture. You, however, reject His grace clearly revealed in scripture. Why do you keep shouting this point on mercy, I do not know. There is grace and mercy in the Gospel.


Yes, of course there is Grace. And it is interesting how people interpret the act of God. But God defined it Himself from His own mouth. He said it was the Mercy of God that saved us. I go by rank in what I read. And as God in human form, I follow what Jesus claims 100% all of the time compared to how others view it. He died for me, He said He had Mercy upon me. That is all that matters, not what Paul or john thinks about it.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#91
@marinerscatch and @JaumeJ This verse is applicable to this discussion as you emphasize so strongly the words of our Savior. I would suggest you not do so to the detriment of your own well-being and learning.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

The red letters in your Bible are not all scripture, it is a part of scripture. The apostle Paul's words are also too a part of scripture. Consider both, and do not toss one out. They both are of importance.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,080
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#92
Yes, Jesus Christ was full of grce, He was graced with the powers to teach and perform miracles, also to save souls and all else, He was graced...…..

One of His gifts is to give mercy to all.

Oh, and yes! He teches if we believe He is the Son of God and we are saved, but please to not OSAS that for believing Him is learning from Him and doing as He bids.

It is not so complicated as it comes across in Paul's epistles...letters that is.
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#93
@marinerscatch and @JaumeJ This verse is applicable to this discussion as you emphasize so strongly the words of our Savior. I would suggest you not do so to the detriment of your own well-being and learning.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

The red letters in your Bible are not all scripture, it is a part of scripture. The apostle Paul's words are also too a part of scripture. Consider both, and do not toss one out. They both are of importance.


But I do not need what Paul wrote because I have what God said and He died for me. And Paul wrote letters to the churches. These are not even canonical until some council voted them as such. These are baby sitting letters. These are not even Gospel!!

And Paul's letters refer back to the actual Gospel. He is saying in his letters to follow the Gospel, not his interpretation of it.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#94
Yes, Jesus Christ was full of grce, He was graced with the powers to teach and perform miracles, also to save souls and all else, He was graced...…..

One of His gifts is to give mercy to all.

Oh, and yes! He teches we believe He is the Son of God and we are saved, but please to not OSAS that for believing Him is learning from Him and doing as He bids.

It is not so complicated as it comes across in Paul's epistles...letters that is.
Paul is simple when people do not add complexities to the Gospel. Christ and Him crucified. Faith in Him. I think it is hard to understand in that people's perception of such an amazing "deal" (that the Gospel is) has been given to us. The comprehension of the Gospel is rather straight forward, but to rest, well, it seems that takes a little work. haha :)
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
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#95
But I do not need what Paul wrote because I have what God said and He died for me. And Paul wrote letters to the churches. These are not even canonical until some council voted them as such. These are baby sitting letters. These are not even Gospel!!
If you're worrying for your soul you need what Paul wrote. If you've got no assurance, you need what Paul wrote. If you find security in your actions as opposed to Christ's sacrifice, you need what Paul wrote. If you are still caught in the shackles of sin, you need what Paul wrote. God used Paul to bring truth to His church.
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#96
But I do not need what Paul wrote because I have what God said and He died for me. And Paul wrote letters to the churches. These are not even canonical until some council voted them as such. These are baby sitting letters. These are not even Gospel!!

And Paul's letters refer back to the actual Gospel. He is saying in his letters to follow the Gospel, not his interpretation of it.


And I am doing that because the Gospel is about what Jesus said and did 100%
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#97
If you're worrying for your soul you need what Paul wrote. If you've got no assurance, you need what Paul wrote. If you find security in your actions as opposed what Christ's sacrifice, you need what Paul wrote. If you are still caught in the shackles of sin, you need what Paul wrote. God used Paul to bring truth to His church.


hahahahaha are you kidding me?

I have what God said! Who is man that I need him over God?


hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,080
3,007
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#98
Paul is simple when people do not add complexities to the Gospel. Christ and Him crucified. Faith in Him. I think it is hard to understand in that people's perception of such an amazing "deal" (that the Gospel is) has been given to us. The comprehension of the Gospel is rather straight forward, but to rest, well, it seems that takes a little work. haha :)

It appears you have walked into this one. The first four Books of the Bible are called by many, The Gospels.

There is only one Gospel, that of Jesus Christ, One, the same in the time of Abraham and today.

If you truly know Paul's letters, then you know he declares, himself, there is but one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and if any teach another, not that there is another, he says, "Let him be accursed."

Now, of three of the Twelve teach the Gospel as they learned first-hand from the Savior, why then do you cling to Paul?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,080
3,007
113
#99
I am going to go for now, I pray all who love Jesus Christ do heaqr Him and obey Him… tsk tsk, there is that word again, obey...
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
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And I am doing that because the Gospel is about what Jesus said and did 100%
The Gospel will indeed in its reception and through the conviction of the Holy Spirit grant repentance and in turn, eternal life through faith in the Son. Yet, beyond the initial repentance, we need to know what to do in this life. This we learn more of in later epistles, such as through the writings of the apostle Paul.

You may claim you have no need of further revelation, but you ought to keep in mind that you aren't saved just to be saved. You are saved unto good works. This too is delved into in the NT. You should move beyond the Gospels and delve a little deeper into your walk, learn about fellowshipping with God, and the Holy Spirit. Learn about being a new creation in Christ Jesus. Learn about being dead to sin and alive unto God.

There is much to learn, things that are not in red letters. Truth be told, considering the Bible is the word of God, should not it all be red? :)