baptism problem

[lavzsmiles]

There is really only ONE true Church composed of ALL true believers. (I Corinthians 12:13)

Biblical Baptism is immersion of a true believer in water as an act of obedience and a public testament of faith in the Christ Who died and is risen from the dead for our redemption. It is an initiation into our function as a member of the Body of Christ.

I don't hold to alot of traditions concerning baptism. If a true believer wants to be baptized in the Name of the LORD as an act of obedience and a testimony of faith, I will baptize him/her regardless of whether he/she becomes a member of my local church.

 

[JaumeJ]

There is really only ONE true Church composed of ALL true believers. (I Corinthians 12:13)

Biblical Baptism is immersion of a true believer in water as an act of obedience and a public testament of faith in the Christ Who died and is risen from the dead for our redemption. It is an initiation into our function as a member of the Body of Christ.

I don't hold to alot of traditions concerning baptism. If a true believer wants to be baptized in the Name of the LORD as an act of obedience and a testimony of faith, I will baptize him/her regardless of whether he/she becomes a member of my local church.

I pray people are hearing you, and I pray you baptize many. It is also a good imitation of our Lord's being baptized to fulfill all righteousness. He being our Example, was obedient, and so should we be whenever and where ever possible, amen.

 

[MaranathaSoonQuick]

what do you see when you look at the scripture of acts, if it were not of any importance than why did Jesus do it? and again the scripture in acts i posted a while ago and one underlined actually the very part, and not many days hence the Holy Ghost shall come upon you, not many days hence? hence of what, OOOOHHH not many days hence of being BAPTIZED in WATER the HOLY GHOST will BAPTIZE you with HIMSELF. ahhh makes so much sense to be baptized now doesn't it? or maybe not if you don't read your bibles but rather appeal to the opinion of a Christian but un-well-informed. because God never said it was not required he always actually required to be baptized. there you see it in verse and verse again, here's a huge question i need answered, WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY WE DON"T NEED BAPTISM? if you can support that statement...
and now this guy thinks that being baptized is bathing yourself because of so many un-learned christian's statements, Baptism is not to clean dirt from you, but to clean the filth of sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

what do you see when you look at the scripture of acts, if it were not of any importance than why did Jesus do it? and again the scripture in acts i posted a while ago and one underlined actually the very part, and not many days hence the Holy Ghost shall come upon you, not many days hence? hence of what, OOOOHHH not many days hence of being BAPTIZED in WATER the HOLY GHOST will BAPTIZE you with HIMSELF. ahhh makes so much sense to be baptized now doesn't it? or maybe not if you don't read your bibles but rather appeal to the opinion of a Christian but un-well-informed. because God never said it was not required he always actually required to be baptized. there you see it in verse and verse again, here's a huge question i need answered, WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY WE DON"T NEED BAPTISM? if you can support that statement...
and now this guy thinks that being baptized is bathing yourself because of so many un-learned christian's statements, Baptism is not to clean dirt from you, but to clean the filth of sin.

Your right, Baptism is to clean filth of sin, But Peter says water baptism does not remove filth of sin, BUT it is an answer of a good consciousness towards Christ, His ressurection cleaned the filth of sin, By The Baptism which is performed by the HS. (see also titus 3: 5)

ths issue is not whether water baptism should be done by ALL who believe, there is no issue there, we all agree they should. The issue is when the baptism of the HS takes place.

Paul talks about baptisms (plural) and how they are doctrines. Hebrews tells us, there is one baptism which counts, Which is it? The one performed by God, or the one performed by another sinner, who can not even save himself?

 

[xino]

@MaranathaSoonQuick
Jesus was baptised to fulfil the prophecy.
your Mark 16 quote, Eternally Greatfull already explained the meaning of the -Believe-. (check end of page 7)
Acts talks about being baptised onto the name of Jesus Christ, not of John's baptism. Being baptised means dying in burial with Jesus Christ.
Read Luke 12:50, Jesus Christ said he has a baptism to undergo...That is the baptism of burial.
Your Acts 1:5 was referring to the days of Pentecostal, because Jesus gave Peter the keys of Kingdom of God. And entering the Kingdom is through Baptism (John 3- Nicodemus). In fact Acts 3 (which was the few days Jesus was talking about was when Peter used the keys!) the holy ghost descended onto the people in the house hold. The disciples were baptised AGES ago...so why after all these days/weeks/months is when the Holy Ghost descended on them?
We didn't get the holy ghost because Jesus was not glorified yet, it was when he ascended to heaven that he provided the holy ghost and Peter had the keys to open the door.

You said the Holy Ghost will baptise you with himself. How so? do you know what the Holy Ghost is? where does the Holy Ghost comes from? when was the last time you saw someone baptised with the Holy Ghost?

Yes Jesus required us to baptise...but did he mention water? or Baptism of Repentance by John?
please read Luke 12:50 carefully!

It clearly says in the bible that baptism of John is for repentance and ''forgiveness'' of sins. Does not wash away sins.
Please tell me the purpose of Jesus Blood, what is Jesus blood for?
his blood is to wash away our sins.

Ok here is a perfect example I read from a book.
**A son asked his Father how bad a sin can impact you.
The father took a screw and nailed it to the wall and removed it. He said to his son, this is what sin does and how it impacts. Once you sin, it leaves a mark in your body.**
If you are baptised by water, you are washing away the dirt from your body and being forgiven. But Jesus blood heals the wound/the mark on the wall as new when you repent



Water Baptism is for salvation?
so...when Jesus said, who ever believes in me, even though dies will live? or will have eternal life?
so now people put water baptism aka John's repentance as their salvation.

who can clean the filth of your sins? Jesus or water?
Peter 3:21 talks about water baptism was not only for washing away dirt but a response to God's clean conscience. People use that quote to prove water baptism is only for salvation. But they should read Peter 3:20 as well. Hard to understand but from my understanding means when Jesus died in flesh, his spirit was alive. He proclaimed a message to the imprisoned (dead) spirits who were washed away during the Noah flooding (they died in vain) . Yet in the flooding, only 8 people were saved (alive) through water, which the water symbolises baptism.

Now get this, water baptism means immersion inside water, so if 8 people were saved 'through' water, shouldn't that mean they should have drowned? and water baptism means immersion, so how can we be saved if we are dunked in water when the 8 people were saved through water?
Please study 1 Peter 3:20-21 using bible.cc and reading different version as they have different words and meaning.
Other bible talks about pledge/asking meaning it's in prayer for baptism. Others refers to water.

Baptism Peter said WAS not to wash away dirt. Water is to wash away dirt from our bodies, so how does one wash away dirt from the heart?


OK here is a contradiction from your experience and understanding.
You used Acts saying the holy ghost will baptise you in the coming days.
Tell me, when Jesus was baptised by John's water baptism of repentance, why did the Holy Ghost descend as a dove to Jesus??? why did Jesus need the Holy Ghost?


read this:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...yDdHAc&sig=AHIEtbQ2uadXlZfzPzd4t0Z9oTqEaX7eYQ

 

[nathan3]

There is no problem with baptism. There is a problem with people.

 

[tribesman]

...If we are doing anything that is called a sacrament in hopes that that thing will save us, have a part in our salvation, or our salvation has a thing to do with that sacrament, it is a work based on the scriptural sense of the word.

Even if it is not for salvation, it is still called a work. Only in this case, it is a work which is a fruit of our repentance and faith.

No. Sacraments are not "works" in the sense that you refer them to be. However, I agree that salvation is not "dependent" upon the sacraments.

My guess is that you don't use the term "sacraments" at all?

Baptize is merely a Greek word which means to immerse, to be placed into, or to be overwhelmed with, Baptize is not an English word, but a transliteration of the Greek word. One must also note the word circumcision. One does not circumcise themself either, yet the NT states that circumcision is a work of the law. And we are not saved by works. thus using this example. Baptism most certainly is a work.

Well, circumcision is not strictly a work of the law but also about how to apply same for the regenerate. It is a matter of what circumcision signifies. Circumcision did signify the righteousness that is of faith (Rom.4:11). Paul is objecting to circumcision as a way to earn righteousness (Rom.2:25), not to what it signifies. However, he makes it clear that baptism is now put in its place.

Yet this is where we run into problems. Scripture says spirit baptism and water baptism are separate events. It is an error to think spirit baptism and water baptism are intertwined as to happen at the same time. for this holds the work of God in check until man does a work himself.

Yes, they are separate events. However in what way and how they are separate may be discussed. But since you are very stuck in insisting that water baptism is nothing but a "work" then I think its hard for you to see any real correlation between them two in this wise. Generally, there is much confusion today as for the term "Spirit baptism" (often confused with spiritual gifts, but also with water baptism). To cut it short: As for the use of the term "baptism" in scripture, a good study on context and environment will imply that water baptism would almost always be assumed - unless otherwise clearly stated.

None, Except to show that I was willing to profess my faith to everyone, and not afraid of the one who saved me. No

Here is where we mainly differ on this. For me baptism (and communion, confession and absolution) are just as much giving us assurance as the preached Word of God. They are equal.

lol. I like ho you added the words "in and by itself" If salvation is based on ones water baptism at all, even if it is not totally on the baptism (ie in and of itself) is in error. and using it as a work to save him.

Lol, yes, I did that to be clear cut. Yet you are still tilting against windmills, talking about "basing" salvation on water baptism. Something I have not suggested. In fact, I have renounced such ideas.

Thats not the way I see it. That is following a catholic frame of mind and viewpoint, which we should get away from. Unfortunately many of the old reformers kept many of the catholic teachings and traditions. and still use them today, thus they have not completely broken away from the catholic church and made a fresh start. they are still tainted by them in my viewpoint.

Oh, this is a long story and another topic. I can only say this much. The reformation saw it as no end in itself to rid everything "catholic". There was no intention to "start a new church" or to abandon all learning that had passed down for generations in the romish church. The reformers loved the church but wanted to reform it and bring the gospel back to light. That which was good of Rome was not an issue. But there were those that went too far in their "reforming", going out of the orthodox and into the erratic. Zwingli almost bordered on it and the anabaptists crossed the line early on.

I see grace like this. Any day I wake up and I am not in hell, I have been given grace. Any time I sin and am still living after that sin, I have been given grace. Any time I recieve anything good from my father, I have been given grace. An unbeliever is given grace by the mere fact he is still alive and still able to repent. Anything we recieve, whether good or bad, is by grace, because we all deserve on thing, and that is an eternity apart from God.

Agreed here. Even the wicked are being shown much grace every day.

now if you wanted to reword that and say it allows God to bless us, instead of chasten us, i can see that, because any time we do not do the command of God we are in sin, and deserving of chastening. we will not be blessed if we are being chastened. One who will not even do Gods first command would be in chastening mode, and not grow in christ, and is missing out on many blessings.

Yep.

what do you mean here, you used gifts and graces in plural.

if we do not get the one gift, there will be no other gift.
again, even an unbeliever recives grace, I think your stuck on the catholic traditional meaning of the word grace and not the literal meaning. which is undeserved favor.

Marking words, are we? Of course it is implied that these are regenerate souls (God's children) who have all been given the ONE gift that saves them. However, for these children there are even more gifts, as James talks about (Jam.1:17).

[This said, the term "grace" is not always exclusively used in scripture in the sense you mentioned above, but that's off-topic. In this context we are talking about here, it is.]

as far as what I meant. The moment we repent and place our faith in Christ, we are saved, whihc means we have been washed by the blood of Christ, and been justified in him. This is immediate and not conditioned on anything. God did all the work (including the HS, who baptised us and through this baptism cleansed us)

I believe however that regeneration preceeds these things, so as we know we differ here too.

For those who say water baptism is a requirement at any level for one to be saved, they say that this does not happen immediately after true repentnance and faith, but there is a time laps between the time a person repents, and has saving faith, and the time they get immersed in water. which could be days, even weeks in some circumstances.

I denounce the time-lapse error. However, I believe it is fully possible to having received baptism before one is converted and once the latter has occurred no "re-baptism" needs to be done.

The question I have for those who believe in baptismal regeneration, is what if the person dies inbetween, is the person lost because he did not have a chance to be baptised in water yet? or is he saved, and how could he be saved if he did not get baptised yet?

Yes, that is a good question.

I agree, but unfortunately many place what the fathers say as gospel truth, and hold them equal to scripture. this leaves us stuck in a traditional rut, and unable to search the scripture for truth. The big example in this discussion is what grace is. Grace is underserved favor. We recieve grace every minute we are alive. We do not do work to allow channels of Gods grace to flow to us, This makes no sense. and is just a roman excuse to add their sacraments as a means to salvation, which unfortunately passed on in part to some of the reformers.

We are to be as much vary against theological newcomers (there came a whole bunch of them in the 18-and 19 centuries, not least from the US). On essential doctrine I go by this standard: It has to be taught in both the OT and NT. It has to be taught in some form in succession in church history and line up with the historical creeds (as far as these line up with the apostolic creeds).

 

[tribesman]

...Acts talks about being baptised onto the name of Jesus Christ, not of John's baptism. Being baptised means dying in burial with Jesus Christ.

...

Water Baptism is for salvation? so...when Jesus said, who ever believes in me, even though dies will live? or will have eternal life? so now people put water baptism aka John's repentance as their salvation.

who can clean the filth of your sins? Jesus or water?

Peter 3:21 talks about water baptism was not only for washing away dirt but a response to God's clean conscience. People use that quote to prove water baptism is only for salvation. But they should read Peter 3:20 as well. Hard to understand but from my understanding means when Jesus died in flesh, his spirit was alive. He proclaimed a message to the imprisoned (dead) spirits who were washed away during the Noah flooding (they died in vain) . Yet in the flooding, only 8 people were saved (alive) through water, which the water symbolises baptism.

Now get this, water baptism means immersion inside water, so if 8 people were saved 'through' water, shouldn't that mean they should have drowned? and water baptism means immersion, so how can we be saved if we are dunked in water when the 8 people were saved through water?
Please study 1 Peter 3:20-21 using bible.cc and reading different version as they have different words and meaning. Other bible talks about pledge/asking meaning it's in prayer for baptism. Others refers to water.

Baptism Peter said WAS not to wash away dirt. Water is to wash away dirt from our bodies, so how does one wash away dirt from the heart?...

Taken from what you have said in this post below, you have already been baptized as a child, and thus, it need not be done again (unless it was done in a cult, which I assume it was not).

http://christianchat.com/748264-post6.html <-link

However, you also stated that this baptism "meant nothing". Here is where you go off base and I see this as an example of how dangerous the downplaying and spiritualizing of water baptism, so common today, is. Water baptism tends to be viewed as a mere optional and has no other value than an outward symbol. One might as well even be well without it. Sadly, many here hold to such a view, just in various degrees.

 

[xino]

Taken from what you have said in this post below, you have already been baptized as a child, and thus, it need not be done again (unless it was done in a cult, which I assume it was not).

http://christianchat.com/748264-post6.html <-link

However, you also stated that this baptism "meant nothing". Here is where you go off base and I see this as an example of how dangerous the downplaying and spiritualizing of water baptism, so common today, is. Water baptism tends to be viewed as a mere optional and has no other value than an outward symbol. One might as well even be well without it. Sadly, many here hold to such a view, just in various degrees.

I say it again..yes my baby baptism meant nothing!

one can ONLY be baptised spiritually with the blood of Jesus Christ, if they repent and acknowledge of the sins they've done or submit their soul to Jesus Christ whom is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit/Ghost.


babies cannot repent, even though babies are born into sin, WHAT sin have they committed?

**It's like joining the Army, just because you are a soldier, does that mean you are a killer and a country protector? Of course not! You haven't killed any hostile yet therefore you can't be a sinner!**

Also acknowledge another thing: I read another topic about disabled people being sinners. Jesus said disabled people were not sinners nor their parents sinned. They were just born into sin like us, but that does not make them a sinner.
So relate that to a baby, baby cannot sin, if they die they go to Heaven regardless of being born into sin.
It is when you commit ONE sin that you'll become and be branded a sinner.
"one that breaks one law, breaks all law".
And we both know that the wages of sin IS death, so one sin committed is death.


One must live their life till God works their heart and they are ready to repentt to him.


I can understand baptising baby can help them know God. But isn't that why Atheist turn away from God? What is the difference between not baptising a baby and teaching the kid about God, than to baptising a baby and teaching him about God? NO difference, it is always up to the parent how they watch their life and doctrine, and also passing their teachings to the kid.


Baptism means immersion, so how can you validate water sprinkling on a baby as justified?
You must understand that people make their rules, Churches make their laws and rules and we shouldn't live like them.
Please read your bible yourself and understand really WHAT Jesus is saying, not by listening to how others read the bible and what they have to say.

everything about life is all made out of tradition, tradition to control and deceive

 

[JaumeJ]

I say it again..yes my baby baptism meant nothing!

one can ONLY be baptised spiritually with the blood of Jesus Christ, if they repent and acknowledge of the sins they've done or submit their soul to Jesus Christ whom is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit/Ghost.


babies cannot repent, even though babies are born into sin, WHAT sin have they committed?

**It's like joining the Army, just because you are a soldier, does that mean you are a killer and a country protector? Of course not! You haven't killed any hostile yet therefore you can't be a sinner!**

Also acknowledge another thing: I read another topic about disabled people being sinners. Jesus said disabled people were not sinners nor their parents sinned. They were just born into sin like us, but that does not make them a sinner.
So relate that to a baby, baby cannot sin, if they die they go to Heaven regardless of being born into sin.
It is when you commit ONE sin that you'll become and be branded a sinner.
"one that breaks one law, breaks all law".
And we both know that the wages of sin IS death, so one sin committed is death.


One must live their life till God works their heart and they are ready to repentt to him.


I can understand baptising baby can help them know God. But isn't that why Atheist turn away from God? What is the difference between not baptising a baby and teaching the kid about God, than to baptising a baby and teaching him about God? NO difference, it is always up to the parent how they watch their life and doctrine, and also passing their teachings to the kid.


Baptism means immersion, so how can you validate water sprinkling on a baby as justified?
You must understand that people make their rules, Churches make their laws and rules and we shouldn't live like them.
Please read your bible yourself and understand really WHAT Jesus is saying, not by listening to how others read the bible and what they have to say.

everything about life is all made out of tradition, tradition to control and deceive

In some of the replied posts it is stressed if an entire family is baptized at the instruction of a believing parent, it is valid because the family is being raised in the faith. It is only if a baptized baby drifts away that it no longer has an effect, however if the person comes back to the Lord, the baptism is valid. This makes total sense to me, and you will read of families believing and all being baptized in the Word, so if you were baptized by believing parents, or the head of your house, your father, it is quite valid and sure in the sight of God, my little brother!

 

[edward99]

ironic much?
you said I've been listening to men not bible, yet you posted a link to a man made doctrine.


read Luke 12:50
"But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is completed!"

so why is Jesus having a baptism waiting when he was already baptised by John?

you are missing the point that, John's baptism is by water for repentance!
If you want to get repented for your sins to be washed away, you have to do it by John's way.

Now that Jesus was on Earth, he has authority to forgive people's sins. But he wasn't glorified yet, Luke 12:50 explains he has a baptism to under go. This is why we say, "you are baptised and buried in death with Jesus". So when he ascends, the ONLY way to have our sins washed away is by repentance and Jesus will forgive us and wash our sins with his blood. Because he died for us and his blood cleanses us.

WATER BAPTISM DOES NOT WASH OUR SINS. It is to clean dirt from our body, which is what you do when you take a bath or shower.
Authority has been given to Jesus so getting your sins forgiven and washed is NOW ONLY by Jesus Christ whom is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

When we baptise, we should baptise in the name of father, son and holy spirit which the name is called Jesus Christ!
The disciples knew this and baptised in Jesus Christ because he is the father, son and spirit.



Also I've been reading John lately and found out that when ever Jesus is referring to God, he calls him Father. But when he talks about his Father to people, he refers to him as God. Because that is how we see a creator, we see them as a God. But Jesus calls his father, father.

If you have a Master called James and you his servant. Would you refer to him as "James, your food is ready"?
"Master James, your food is ready"?
or would you refer to him as "Master, your food is read"?

It is OBVIOUS you refer to him as Master. But the master's name is James, Master is just a title.
This is why Jesus always refers to God as Father because he is his father. It would be so akward if Jesus kept referring to Father as Jesus Christ. Because people would think he's a nutter.

OK when a demon comes to you face to face, what name do you call out to be-rid of the demon? Father, Son and Holy Spirit or Jesus Christ?
John 1 opening was talking about the word and the word is Jesus Christ. A name that is physically and mentally powerful! That is why demons and Satan fear his name!


this is the truth!

I don't know why you're not already baptized, for one thing.

The link i posted did an exegesis of baptism - I posted it for you. But you already despise water baptism...so you don't have to bother with it, nor join a church. Good work!


Don't be baptized in water then as we are commanded.
Despise it and teach its not needed.

Luke 6:46
"Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

 

[tribesman]

I don't know why you're not already baptized, for one thing.

The link i posted did an exegesis of baptism - I posted it for you. But you already despise water baptism...so you don't have to bother with it, nor join a church. Good work!

Don't be baptized in water then as we are commanded.
Despise it and teach its not needed.

Luke 6:46
"Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

He is already baptized in water:

http://christianchat.com/748264-post6.html <-link

I'm telling him that he does not need to do it again and that it is not good to undervalue water baptism. Sadly, he's not alone in this thinking as there are many who are teaching things which makes people come to downgrade if not despise water baptism. Reminds me about some other groups who had the same attitude to most things "physical".

 

[edward99]

See you still don't get it/ I am not mocking any command, I was baptized in water, It was a huge day in my life I remember intimately even though it was 30 years ago. And I believe everyone should be baptized in water. Of course if your mind was not so closed, you would have seen that by what I have posted in the past. But your to darkened by your own pride to see this.

eh...I've seen everything you've posted.

Jesus isn't King, the jews in the future will accomplish what He did on the Cross - then He gets to be King (LOL), and a future devil confirms some imaginary covenant with future jews.

You are so the expert on licentious vs works righteousness youve created your own magic place - just like that Crucifixion of Christ that is hanging off in a time-warp nothingness because you can not understand AFTER the 69th week.......comes the 70th.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

What'd you get baptized for?

You still don;t get it.
15 And He said to them, &#8220; Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17

UH...that's the passage I've been posting. But you fear God so little, you're willing to go in there with a razor and split asunder that which God has joined together.

Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord << -- OOPS! THAT'S A WORK!

These [d]signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.&#8221;

Since you're a futurist, you don't get that all that happened with and through the first disciples following Pentecost.
Charismatics and charlatans like to pretend they're raising the dead today, but never prove it.

In any case, you don't understand that the Historical narratives of the Synoptic Gospels ain't about YOU.

Those SIGNS DID accompany them. Haven't you read the Acts OF THE APOSTLES?

Jesus was commanding the disciples. He said the people who supposedly believe and are baptized will be saved. Then he told them. THIS IS HOW YOU KNOW WHO HAS BELIVED. THEY WILL>>>

I guess we just ignore these passages.

You ignore them for all intents and purposes, due to your wooden literalism.
You don't understand Pentecost, and what happened SINCE THEN.

So you, in SPITE of Revelation 22, just toss that part in Mark.
good job!

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.&#8221;

Is obeying the Son BEING BAPTIZED straight away.

John 5:24
&#8220;Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.&#8221;

What were His words.

REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED.

John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, &#8220; I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,

I guess all these people are doomed to thell because jesus forgot to tell them they needed to be baptized also!!

Keep thinking your water baptism saved you. I will keep KNOWING the baptism of the HS made me clean and made me right with God as he spiritually circumcised me and adopted me into his family. I was baptised in water because all these things happened, as my testimony to those who were around me, and to myself.

Christs BLOOD; agony; imputed righteousness; and a million other things arent mentioned in those passages either. But cherry-picking helps your false teaching.

I did not say water saved me. I said they are inextricably CONNECTED and the Lord ORDAINED and COMMANDED THEM in juxtaposition to salvation.

If you are comfortable snipping a command from the lips of Christ in half and twisting and mocking the first half, be my guest.

Twist this one for awhile and show that baptism is for if you get around to it; if you wish to make a public declaration; this baptism is the baptism of The Holy Spirit....whatever your spin is.

1 Peter 3:21
Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
NASB

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
KJV

I know the context, and I know what whole verse says.
Did Peter say water baptism was part of conversion or not.

 

[edward99]

@MaranathaSoonQuick
Jesus was baptised to fulfil the prophecy.
your Mark 16 quote, Eternally Greatfull already explained the meaning of the -Believe-. (check end of page 7)
Acts talks about being baptised onto the name of Jesus Christ, not of John's baptism. Being baptised means dying in burial with Jesus Christ.

They were baptizing in water long after John was in prison.
And have been for 2000 years.
But EH....big deal.

 

[xino]

@JaumeJ
are you talking about Cornilues and family? when the house hold were baptised?
who ever uses that passage has a weak argument! We don't even know how many lived in the house hold, either no children lived in there or children did. A weak argument that is invalid.
Yes being baptised by a believer or disciple counts, but what is baptism? being immersed in water or pledge baptism to Jesus Christ?


@edward99
did you read all my post?
1 Peter 3:21 is a weak quote from the bible, it is taken out of context.
Peter was NOT talking about water baptism, he was talking about pledge baptism (will off submission).
1 Peter 3:20 talks about only 8 people survived the Noah's Ark flooding through/by water, which symbolises baptism. BUT not of water baptism that cleanse the dirt but of pledge/will to Father.
It really contradicts the bible if 8 people survived on water and the salvation/save symbol means water baptism (which is immersion).
It's like we keep going back to square one all the time.
People don't know what water baptism is, or the purpose of Jesus blood.
Jesus is the lamp, his blood cleans our sins NOT water!

so your own bible Matthew 28:19 says Jesus commanded us to baptise in water...yea...good luck with that.

They were baptizing in water long after John was in prison.
And have been for 2000 years.
But EH....big deal.

My goodness..don't you understand that John's Baptism is ONLY for repentance? You need John's Baptism to have your sins forgiven.
Even though John was in imprison, yes Jesus and disciple were baptising.
But it is when all authority has been given to Jesus when he ascends to Heaven, is when he can forgive our sins.

Jesus is the lamb, his blood washes away our sins, water does not!
Please tell me..ALL of you who were baptised in water, when you came out. Did you feel any difference? or felt anything in your body?


because when I repented to Jesus Christ, I felt a warmth in my body, like a chill in my spine but it was warm.


so water baptism since 2000 years.....so tradition don't do the same?
much like Arrange Marriage has been going on for years....weak argument.

 

[JaumeJ]

I understand your reasoning, and you almost convince me. There was Lydia the seller of purple who was baptized, and all her household, and others. It seems reasonable if parents are believers, and they baptize their children raising them in the faith, the baptism is valid, but now, you make me think. The most important about immersion is if you believe you are not baptized, then you should follow the prime Example, Yeshua, and be as He, obedient. Thank you, Xino!

 

[xino]

I understand your reasoning, and you almost convince me. There was Lydia the seller of purple who was baptized, and all her household, and others. It seems reasonable if parents are believers, and they baptize their children raising them in the faith, the baptism is valid, but now, you make me think. The most important about immersion is if you believe you are not baptized, then you should follow the prime Example, Yeshua, and be as He, obedient. Thank you, Xino!

thanks man!
that 'Lydia of Thyatira', passage of Acts 16:13 got me thinking.

On the Sabbath we went outside the city gate to the river, where we expected to find a place of prayer. We sat down and began to speak to the women who had gathered there. 14 One of those listening was a woman from the city of Thyatira named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth. She was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message. 15 When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home. “If you consider me a believer in the Lord,” she said, “come and stay at my house.” And she persuaded us.

Let's analyse it.

1. On the Sabbath which was Saturday

2. The disciples went outside the city gate to the river and expected to find a place to pray. This makes sense because it could mean, they can baptise someone in water. They EXPECTED to find a place of prayer. Meaning synagogue, school, chamber, house, church etc where people are gathering is known to be a place of prayer.

3. They sat down and talked to 'women' who were sharing their faith together as well as praying. Obviously Paul must have talked to them about the Good News.

4. One particular woman whom God had moved her heart, Lydia was a dealer in expensive cloth and also a worshipper of God.

5. The Lord opened her heart to react to Paul's message.

NOW GET THIS.
6. Lydia and the people that lives in her house were baptised. But where? yes it makes sense that they COULD be baptised same spot because they were near a river. But remember, Paul and crew saw WOMEN only praying together, and the women are not probably related. Because Lydia was a worshipper of God, faith brought her there and God opened her heart. It is possible she and the people (or family) rejoined somewhere or in the same river spot and were baptised spiritually. OR Paul and crew went to her house to baptise her.

Bible didn't say they were water baptised. Bible just confirms all the people in Lyndia's house were baptised.
We can use an evidence because the prayer gathering was close to a river, but where was Lyndia's family baptised?

7. Woman presuaded Paul and Crew to stay at her home (till when ever)


Household- A house and its occupants regarded as a unit: "the whole household was asleep".

So it obviously makes sense that Lyndia was baptised in her house, because it says her household were baptised.

My scenario-
Paul and crew got off the ship, headed to the gate near a river and expected to find people gathering together and praying.
They did and saw women only gathering and praying.
Paul talked about the Good news and Kingdom of God, Lyndia whom was the only BELIEVER out of the women was moved by God.
Woman said she wants to be baptised, she guided Paul and crew to her house. And everyone in Lyndia's house were baptised spiritually and not by water.
Paul and Crew were going to leave but Lyndia persuaded them to stay in her house.



Again thanks for the quote, what do you think?

 

[tribesman]

...NOW GET THIS.
6. Lydia and the people that lives in her house were baptised. But where? yes it makes sense that they COULD be baptised same spot because they were near a river. But remember, Paul and crew saw WOMEN only praying together, and the women are not probably related. Because Lydia was a worshipper of God, faith brought her there and God opened her heart. It is possible she and the people (or family) rejoined somewhere or in the same river spot and were baptised spiritually. OR Paul and crew went to her house to baptise her.

Bible didn't say they were water baptised. Bible just confirms all the people in Lyndia's house were baptised.
We can use an evidence because the prayer gathering was close to a river, but where was Lyndia's family baptised?...

Every time the NT mentions baptism it is assumed, from the context, that it is speaking about water baptism - unless clearly otherwise stated.

 

[xino]

Every time the NT mentions baptism it is assumed, from the context, that it is speaking about water baptism - unless clearly otherwise stated.

are you here to troll, argue or prove a point?
because you are doing neither!

I already provided Luke 12:50 for you.
go read it and come back to me!

like I said before, we are always going back to square one.
Because you choose NOT to listen, act as if you are right and know it all.

Why don't you act humble like the Lord says?


go read Luke 12:50
if NT baptism means water immersion, then why did Jesus say he has a baptism to undergo? when he was already baptised?

wouldn't it be contracditory in 1 Peter 3:20-21 if 8 people survived the Noah Arks' flooding and Peter said it's a symbol of Baptism. Now if your NT Baptism means water immersion, WOULDN'T it be contradictory that 8 people survived ON water and your NT Baptism teachings GOING INSIDE WATER?

if you choose to ignore my words and go back to square one, I will ignore you too because I can't be dealing with people who don't want to listen and learn.

 

[tribesman]

are you here to troll, argue or prove a point?
because you are doing neither!

I already provided Luke 12:50 for you.
go read it and come back to me!

like I said before, we are always going back to square one.
Because you choose NOT to listen, act as if you are right and know it all.

Why don't you act humble like the Lord says?


go read Luke 12:50
if NT baptism means water immersion, then why did Jesus say he has a baptism to undergo? when he was already baptised?

wouldn't it be contracditory in 1 Peter 3:20-21 if 8 people survived the Noah Arks' flooding and Peter said it's a symbol of Baptism. Now if your NT Baptism means water immersion, WOULDN'T it be contradictory that 8 people survived ON water and your NT Baptism teachings GOING INSIDE WATER?

if you choose to ignore my words and go back to square one, I will ignore you too because I can't be dealing with people who don't want to listen and learn.

What exactly got you to react like this?

Your private interpretations do not hold water. There are no evidences whatsoever that the apostles stopped baptizing people in water.

You are talking about "humility" and can not even submit to the clear and simple testimony of scripture. What a joke.

How can you learn anything when you think you know better than the apostles?

Stop dreaming.