Doctrine of Unconditional Election

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Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
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Have you abandoned your position of "age of accountability" being bogus???
Nope, there never was any such thing as a "FIXED" "Age of accountabiliy" just another Catholic invention based on Old Testament Judaism. One is "Accountable" the FIRST TIME they SIN.

YOU are gonna have to figure out how a newborn baby SINS (when they don't even know where their nose is).

Just like your "Inherited SIN fantasy". The bible's clear: NOBODY IS PUNISHED FOR SOMEBODY ELSE'S SIN. And we all have the same nature - Adam, Jesus, and you. It's called "Human nature". You and I allowed ours to "Conceive". Jesus didn't.

Adam's nature never changed.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
57,448
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Nope, there never was any such thing as a "FIXED" "Age of accountabiliy" just another Catholic invention based on Old Testament Judaism. One is "Accountable" the FIRST TIME they SIN.

YOU are gonna have to figure out how a newborn baby SINS (when they don't even know where their nose is).

Just like your "Inherited SIN fantasy". The bible's clear: NOBODY IS PUNISHED FOR SOMEBODY ELSE'S SIN. And we all have the same nature - Adam, Jesus, and you. It's called "Human nature". You and I allowed ours to "Conceive". Jesus didn't.

Adam's nature never changed.
Well, I never said anything about age of accountability until you introduced it into the conversation, just as you have introduced other elements to rail against as if I said anything about them, when I had not said anything about them. I wonder why you do that. You seem desperate to stick me with something detestable. And I already clarified that the "original sin" words came from a source I quoted, but you like to harp on it also. I even asked what term you would prefer instead. Did you bother answering? Or were you too preoccupied with your rants against me when you do not even understand what I am talking about, while you have knee jerk reactions to terms you do not like even when what they describe is based on what the Bible teaches about the nature of humanity?
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
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Well, I never said anything about age of accountability until you introduced it into the conversation, just as you have introduced other elements to rail against as if I said anything about them, when I had not said anything about them. I wonder why you do that. You seem desperate to stick me with something detestable. And I already clarified that the "original sin" words came from a source I quoted, but you like to harp on it also. I even asked what term you would prefer instead. Did you bother answering? Or were you too preoccupied with your rants against me when you do not even understand what I am talking about, while you have knee jerk reactions to terms you do not like even when what they describe is based on what the Bible teaches about the nature of humanity?
PSST You're the one who's damning babies for the "sin of being conceived", not me.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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Bible verses that state that God knows everyone who will be saved. I don't want man's logic.

God choose them before the foundation of the world, and made arrangements through Jesus to adopt them as his children. (Eph 1:4-5).
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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YOU are gonna have to figure out how a newborn baby SINS (when they don't even know where their nose is).
Does this help?

[Psa 58:3 KJV] 3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

[Rom 9:11, 13 KJV]
11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) ...
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Actually, none of them state that the Lord knows who will be saved. The Ephesians passage is not God's choosing of people, rather, God has chosen the spiritual blessings to be found in Christ. This was chosen before the foundation of the world. No one was in Christ before the foundation of the world. More Calvin's false doctrine.

Would you mind supplying a scripture for your statement?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Romans 8:29 clearly states whom He did foreknow and not what He did foreknow.
 

Bob-Carabbio

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Jun 24, 2020
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Now you bear false witness. Shame on you.
No false witness: "
ALL others are under condemnation. From birth, being a "natural man."

So what did you REALLY MEAN when YOU made that statement????
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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This is completely false since faith in Christ is essential for anyone to be saved (Acts 16:30,31). If you did not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and receive Him as Lord and Savior, you did not obey the Gospel. And obedience to the Gospel is something a person must do or not do. So if you have no done this you cannot claim to be saved.

If the Jailer was not reborn again, Why would he ask "What must I do to be saved" (delivered)? Saved, according to Greek translation means "deliver".

The same question that the Born again Jews ask in Acts 2:38, when their guilty conscience was "PRICKED"

The stony heart of the natural man (1 Cor 2:14) is exchanged for a fleshy heart that can be pricked to feel spiritual guilt. (Ezk 11:19).

The stony heart of the natural man had a very different response, when he heard the same sermon from Stephen, that Peter preached to the Jews in acts 2:38. They were "cut to the heart" and gnashed on Stephen with their teeth.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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This is completely false since faith in Christ is essential for anyone to be saved (Acts 16:30,31). If you did not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and receive Him as Lord and Savior, you did not obey the Gospel. And obedience to the Gospel is something a person must do or not do. So if you have no done this you cannot claim to be saved.

Believing the gospel is a product of already being born again. The newborn babe in Christ does not believe in the gospel, until he has matured enough (by being taught) to come unto a knowledge of the gospel, therefore, being saved (delivered from his ignorance).

There is a deliverance (salvation, that is not eternal) when a born again child of God comes unto a knowledge of the truth. salvation, according to Greek means a deliverance.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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No false witness: "
ALL others are under condemnation. From birth, being a "natural man."

So what did you REALLY MEAN when YOU made that statement????
Like I said, you seem desperate to stick me with something detestable. I did not even use those words. Those are your words ("sin of being conceived"), and you wish to accuse me as if I'd uttered them. You bear false witness. Really, Bob, what is your problem? Since you don't believe me, read your Bible. You will discover that those not born again of the Holy Spirit of God are under condemnation.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Man must believe in Jesus Christ to be justified by the faith of Christ.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Yes, but it is still Christ's faith that justifies us eternally.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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JUST THINK of all the po' little babies unborn and otherwise being tortured in HELL for being conceived!!! Boggles the mind!!
That must be the God of your understanding. It is certainly not mine.

Just more of your desperation on full display for all the world to see.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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We are all under condemnation from birth.

So then, just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one
act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men. Romans 5:18


The natural man needs to be born again of the Spirit. If not, he passes into the second death.

The "all men" has reference to "they which receive abundance of grace, and of the gift of righteousness" in verse 17.