Doctrine of Unconditional Election

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ForestGreenCook

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brightfame52 said:
Sorry Gods Grace isnt for everybody, everybody isnt and wont be saved. As I stated, Grace saves ! God gives only a remnant Grace, the rest He gives them what they deserve, hell for their sins.
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I usually agree with your statements, but I question you on your statement that only the remnant are going to heaven.

Jacob/Israel encompases all of the elect, that are made up of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev5:9).

The household of Jacob/Israel turned away from God and worshiped idols, resulting in God scattering them into all the earth, until they repent, but God left in the midst of them an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord.

The remnant of Israel shall do no iniquity, nor speak lies, neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth.( Zeph 3:11-13).

I believe the two gates in Matt 7 harmonizes with this scripture. The straight gate being the remnant and the wide gate being the disobedient household of Jacob/Israel, who are preaching and teaching false doctrines of eternal salvation by good works.
 
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rogerg

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ForestGreenCook said:
The household of Jacob/Israel turned away from God and worshiped idols, resulting in God scattering them into all the earth, until they repent, but God left in the midst of them an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord.
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No earthly nation or tribe is of the elect due to that identity. Only chosen individuals, on a person-by-person basis, are.

[Gal 6:15-16 KJV]
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

[Rom 9:7-8 KJV]
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

[Col 3:11-12 KJV]
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

[1Pe 2:9-10 KJV]
9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
 
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John146

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I would bet all of those on here who believe Calvin’s doctrine also believe they are part of the “elect” and their family. But the truth be told, they have no idea wether or not they will “persevere” to the end.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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John146 said:
I would bet all of those on here who believe Calvin’s doctrine also believe they are part of the “elect” and their family. But the truth be told, they have no idea wether or not they will “persevere” to the end.
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Every one of them believes they will persevere 100%. This is because they aren't trusting in themselves to do it, but God to do it for them...Philippians 1:6. They would say anyone counting on themselves to persevere has added works to grace.
 
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John146

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Cameron143 said:
Every one of them believes they will persevere 100%. This is because they aren't trusting in themselves to do it, but God to do it for them...Philippians 1:6. They would say anyone counting on themselves to persevere has added works to grace.
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And if they don't persevere to the end it's God's fault.
 
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ForestGreenCook

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rogerg said:
No earthly nation or tribe is of the elect due to that identity. Only chosen individuals, on a person-by-person basis, are.

[Gal 6:15-16 KJV]
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

[Rom 9:7-8 KJV]
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

[Col 3:11-12 KJV]
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

[1Pe 2:9-10 KJV]
9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
Click to expand...

God's elect are made up of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev 5:9).

Zeph 3:10-13, The household of Jacob/Israel were scattered to the ends of the earth, for their disobedience, but God left in the midst of them a remnant that would trust in the name of the Lord.

These verses harmonize with the two gates in Matt 7 The remnant in the straight gate, and the disobedient household of Jacob/Israel into the wide gate.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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#4,190
John146 said:
I would bet all of those on here who believe Calvin’s doctrine also believe they are part of the “elect” and their family. But the truth be told, they have no idea wether or not they will “persevere” to the end.
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Matt 10:27-28, My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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#4,191
John146 said:
I would bet all of those on here who believe Calvin’s doctrine also believe they are part of the “elect” and their family. But the truth be told, they have no idea wether or not they will “persevere” to the end.
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Doesn't Calvinism also teach perseverance of the saints?
 
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John146

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ForestGreenCook said:
The "US" that were blessed with all spiritual blessings are the faithful in Christ Jesus. The same "US" was chosen in verse 4.
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The word “according” takes the context of what’s chosen back to verse 3. Calvin wants to make the “us” the context. That’s bad English.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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John146 said:
Yes, a true believer will persevere to the end.
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Interesting dodge. Well, having been around these rooms for a number of years, I have picked up a thing or two, including the fact that the "P" in Calvin's tulip stands for perseverance of the saints.
 
J

John146

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Magenta said:
Interesting dodge. Well, having been around these rooms for a number of years, I have picked up a thing or two, including the fact that the "P" In Calvin's tulip stands for perseverance of the saints.
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That’s what I said, is it not? According to Calvin, a believer could never go astray or fall away.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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John146 said:
That’s what I said, is it not? According to Calvin, a believer could never go astray or fall away.
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No that's not what you said. Your answer said nothing of Calvinism... you spoke in general terms when I asked specifically about Calvinism.
 
R

rogerg

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ForestGreenCook said:
God's elect are made up of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev 5:9).

Zeph 3:10-13, The household of Jacob/Israel were scattered to the ends of the earth, for their disobedience, but God left in the midst of them a remnant that would trust in the name of the Lord.

These verses harmonize with the two gates in Matt 7 The remnant in the straight gate, and the disobedient household of Jacob/Israel into the wide gate.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I'm not exactly sure what your point is - maybe I've missed it, but I don't see a connection to the gates you see.
Those who trust in the name of the Lord do so, and are those, whom God has elected to salvation.
They have become the "Israel of God" - it is not an earthly nation or an earthly tribe, but a spiritual - of spiritual Israel.
In fact, at the risk of stating the obvious, those human tribal members are not even alive anymore and therefore cannot come to trust in the name of the Lord. Notice in Phl 1:6, we see that it is God alone who "hath begun a good work" in us, so, it is not of ourselves


[Phl 1:6 KJV] 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
 
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John146

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Magenta said:
No that's not what you said. Your answer said nothing of Calvinism... you spoke in general terms when I asked specifically about Calvinism.
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Calvinism states that the true believer, the "elect" will persevere to the end.
 
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