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The term "flesh" is used 3 different ways in the NT.
1) the carnal ways of thinking and actions left over from the prior manner of living from the old man - this is where renewing our minds comes in
2) it is used when talking about self-effort ( Abraham and Paul )
3) and sometimes it just means the "fleshly-meat - the body" itself
The flesh is self-effort apart from God.
Here Abraham tried by his own self-effort/flesh to fulfill the word of God given to him by sleeping with Hagar to produce a son.
Romans 4:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found?
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Here Paul was talking about all his elf-effort he did to "do things for God" in his own self-effort/flesh. Paul says that he takes no confidence in the flesh - by his own self-effort to "Do things for God and ourselves"
Philippians 3:3-4 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more:
I realize that for us that have to "maintain" our salvation by "doing things" - this self-effort in the flesh is offensive to us. And it is supposed to be - it exposes where we are living form - ourselves in our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness...or do we believe in the finished work of Christ for our salvation which is by grace through faith alone?
1) the carnal ways of thinking and actions left over from the prior manner of living from the old man - this is where renewing our minds comes in
2) it is used when talking about self-effort ( Abraham and Paul )
3) and sometimes it just means the "fleshly-meat - the body" itself
The flesh is self-effort apart from God.
Here Abraham tried by his own self-effort/flesh to fulfill the word of God given to him by sleeping with Hagar to produce a son.
Romans 4:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found?
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Here Paul was talking about all his elf-effort he did to "do things for God" in his own self-effort/flesh. Paul says that he takes no confidence in the flesh - by his own self-effort to "Do things for God and ourselves"
Philippians 3:3-4 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more:
I realize that for us that have to "maintain" our salvation by "doing things" - this self-effort in the flesh is offensive to us. And it is supposed to be - it exposes where we are living form - ourselves in our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness...or do we believe in the finished work of Christ for our salvation which is by grace through faith alone?
F
This pretty much encapsulates what lawless grace encompases. Any act of obedience nullifies grace. That's problematic to openly admit, so great effort (the irony 
) is made to insist that there are no commandments to obey.
) is made to insist that there are no commandments to obey.
Thanks, I think that simplified it a little for me. If we are in the Spirit we should count it a joy and privilege to walk with Jesus and do as he says. I have found that I have sometimes tried to do things on my own and I always fall when I do. But when I walk in the Spirit Jesus is there with me and I can do what he wants me to do because it is not I that is doing it but the Spirit that is within me. If I count on myself I know I will fall, but if I count on Jesus to be with me then I can do what he wants and I am happy to do it.
There are commands . From obeying these commands we fulfill all obedience from His life being expressed in us.
1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
The command to be obedient - is to the faith. Faith in all that Christ has done for us in His finished work. No - D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness - which is self-effort in the flesh to "maintain" salvation.
Romans 1:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faithamong all nations, for his name:
Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.
1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
The command to be obedient - is to the faith. Faith in all that Christ has done for us in His finished work. No - D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness - which is self-effort in the flesh to "maintain" salvation.
Romans 1:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faithamong all nations, for his name:
Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.
This just introduces more confusion because we all "have to walk with Jesus and be obedient to Him". No exceptions.
The difference is whether we believe we've been justified, or we don't. Those who do believe are free to follow the spirit and do GOD's will. Those who don't are bound to try to justify themselves.
The difference is whether we believe we've been justified, or we don't. Those who do believe are free to follow the spirit and do GOD's will. Those who don't are bound to try to justify themselves.
E
This pretty much encapsulates what lawless grace encompases. Any act of obedience nullifies grace. That's problematic to openly admit, so great effort (the irony ) is made to insist that there are no commandments to obey.
) is made to insist that there are no commandments to obey.
The flesh (self will or works of any type) can not save itself.
the work of Christ and his mercy saves us, thats it.
Saying works nullifies grace does not mean works are not essential. It means works has its place. And that place follows, or is a result of grace and love, and not the other way around, like you would like us to believe.
E
This is not true.
what separates a true child of God is they DO WALK WITH JESUS, vs those who DO NOT.
It is not a have to do anything, faith produces works, people of true faith and repentance do work, because it is their new nature.
When you ut the words "have, Must, Required" in the equation, you are preaching legalism.
Amen EG..well said...
This is the reason we need to preach and teach people on the grace of God because it is what enables a person to walk free from sin and our unrenewed minds and to follow the Lord from our heart.
The true Christian life is not about obeying rules or a behavior modification program. It's a product of an exchanged life in Christ.
2 Peter 3:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
This is the reason we need to preach and teach people on the grace of God because it is what enables a person to walk free from sin and our unrenewed minds and to follow the Lord from our heart.
The true Christian life is not about obeying rules or a behavior modification program. It's a product of an exchanged life in Christ.
2 Peter 3:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
Amen..I agree...we shouldn't be quick to throw HRFTD out as not having received Christ at one time in his life just because of a mis-understanding about the grace of Christ only for salvation.
Understanding the magnitude gospel of the grace of Christ is crucial for all of us in order to grow up in Him. ( I love your term "magnitude - I'm going to borrow it...thanks...it is so descriptive of the truth that is in our Lord's finished work.... )
Understanding the magnitude gospel of the grace of Christ is crucial for all of us in order to grow up in Him. ( I love your term "magnitude - I'm going to borrow it...thanks...it is so descriptive of the truth that is in our Lord's finished work....
)
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That's all it is?...a behavior modification program? I think we are missing the real purpose of Christ coming to die for us.
We are sons/daughters of God through Christ - not a behavior modification program.. We are called to be sons and daughters of the King that we truly are in Him now and be who we are in Christ.
This does not happen from "doing things" to change our outward behavior by our own self-effort..it's a product of an exchanged life that is only in Christ.
Romans 8:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"
[SUP]16[/SUP] The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
We are sons/daughters of God through Christ - not a behavior modification program.. We are called to be sons and daughters of the King that we truly are in Him now and be who we are in Christ.
This does not happen from "doing things" to change our outward behavior by our own self-effort..it's a product of an exchanged life that is only in Christ.
Romans 8:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"
[SUP]16[/SUP] The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
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You're not entitled to any opinion until you read the first 50 pages, heathen!
Just kidding.
I like what you've shared. God bless.
Just kidding.
I like what you've shared. God bless.
God Bless You and everyone here and I hope everyone has a good day!
E
Your skipping a part which must be done before any of this can take place.
before he can do this. He must save us, Make us his child. make us acceptable to him so he can THEN pour out his love in our hearts and change us.
Until he does this, He can not do anything, because we are dead, Lost to him, Unable to relate to him and him unable to relate to us, The barrier must be removed sin, Until then. No change can happen. or will happen..
Oh yeah, People might seem like christians, act like them in deed, and even play the part. but they are no more christian than the heathen who openly says he wants nothing to do with god.
before he can do this. He must save us, Make us his child. make us acceptable to him so he can THEN pour out his love in our hearts and change us.
Until he does this, He can not do anything, because we are dead, Lost to him, Unable to relate to him and him unable to relate to us, The barrier must be removed sin, Until then. No change can happen. or will happen..
Oh yeah, People might seem like christians, act like them in deed, and even play the part. but they are no more christian than the heathen who openly says he wants nothing to do with god.
●1~Like who? Who do you know that has been overcome by that idea? I think you're making up stories again. Can you name someone on this thread who has been overcome by that idea, or are you just making up stories to have another play-time arguement with yourself.
You often talk about these 'folks' that believe certain things, but you never seem to say who these 'folks' are. If you tell us who they are, maybe we can help them.
●2~Not by works of righteousness which WE have done.
By the righteousness of Christ.
●3~Don't forget the resurrection HEROSEFROMTHEDEAD!
●4~Born-again FROM ABOVE by the Holy Ghost baptism, not WATER-baptism.
●5~Wrong. He doesn't command us to 'do what it takes' to remain in Him. Galatians3:3~'Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?'~See excellent scripture post by FreeNChrist below...
ty, brother
Oh, another works-righteousness legalist! eh?!
I KNEW it!!!
O-kaaay, I'll be obedient and do it,
but can y'all show a LEETLE bit of grace,
and promise not to post anymore until
I read all fifty pages and catch up??
It'll take me about a week. Thanks.
You often talk about these 'folks' that believe certain things, but you never seem to say who these 'folks' are. If you tell us who they are, maybe we can help them.
●2~Not by works of righteousness which WE have done.
By the righteousness of Christ.
●3~Don't forget the resurrection HEROSEFROMTHEDEAD!
●4~Born-again FROM ABOVE by the Holy Ghost baptism, not WATER-baptism.
●5~Wrong. He doesn't command us to 'do what it takes' to remain in Him. Galatians3:3~'Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?'~See excellent scripture post by FreeNChrist below...
ty, brother
You're not entitled to any opinion until you read the first 50 pages, heathen!
Just kidding.
I like what you've shared. God bless.
Just kidding.
I like what you've shared. God bless.
I KNEW it!!!
O-kaaay, I'll be obedient and do it,
but can y'all show a LEETLE bit of grace,
and promise not to post anymore until
I read all fifty pages and catch up??
It'll take me about a week. Thanks.