Salvation includes deliverance “from the wrath to come”
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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Luke 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware---
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he who knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes
Does this suggest that those who haven't heard of Jesus Christ will not face eternal damnation? These verses would seem to say that those who have heard the truth and reject it are severely judged; but those who have't are not.
Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves.
Does this imply that those who follow the ways of the righteous though they've never heard of Jesus Christ are saved?
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he who knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes
Does this suggest that those who haven't heard of Jesus Christ will not face eternal damnation? These verses would seem to say that those who have heard the truth and reject it are severely judged; but those who have't are not.
Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves.
Does this imply that those who follow the ways of the righteous though they've never heard of Jesus Christ are saved?
But the trampling of Jerusalem by the gentile nations did not end when Jerusalem finally fell in 70 ad. (Lk 21:20-24)
But it has ended now.
I'm sure that somebody could argue with you about it, but not me, I agree.
Yes the days of the kingdom and the dest of Jeru.
But then, the kingdom didn't end when Jerusalem fell in 70 ad did it?
Isn't the kingdom here today? (You and me)
You want it to be exclusively about those times, which much of it is, but the prophecies and promises reach us even today.
Except that after the times of the gentiles (ToG's) is ended, Jerusalem is restored.
The ToG's is a time with a beginning and an end. It didn't end in 70 ad.
Mt 24:22, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved:"
Who is the flesh that is spoken of here? That is to survive the dest?
When I give up all faith, all hope of eternal life, all hope of a resurrection, all belief in Jesus and His eternal city, all hope of having my sins forgiven and being part of His bride,........Then I could possibly, maybe, could consider Preterism, NOT! KNOT, and DOUBLE KNOT! ha ha.
Jesus has Knot given up on Israel yet, there are still a few more souls to enter the kingdom.
But it has ended now.
I'm sure that somebody could argue with you about it, but not me, I agree.
Yes the days of the kingdom and the dest of Jeru.
But then, the kingdom didn't end when Jerusalem fell in 70 ad did it?
Isn't the kingdom here today? (You and me)
You want it to be exclusively about those times, which much of it is, but the prophecies and promises reach us even today.
Except that after the times of the gentiles (ToG's) is ended, Jerusalem is restored.
The ToG's is a time with a beginning and an end. It didn't end in 70 ad.
Mt 24:22, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved:"
Who is the flesh that is spoken of here? That is to survive the dest?
This morbid obsession with that dirt based city and a long dead nation of God is nothing more than Israeli tourettes syndrome and full preterism is the only cure....
Jesus has Knot given up on Israel yet, there are still a few more souls to enter the kingdom.
OK, let's review,
You said that you stumped someone, asking them about the 7 thunders Rev 10:3-4.
I asked you, if you knew what they said.
You said, tell me.
I didn't tell you, I said look in the parallel passage of Daniel 12:5-7.
But then......instead of reading the scriptures, you said that you were afraid to hear what I might have to say about the passage.
You accuse me of doing something, when you haven't even heard what I have to say about the passage.
Well, you have the clue, figure it out for yourself!
Before the Law of Moses, people were saved by love, faith, and grace. (Noah, Abraham)
During the time of the Law of Moses, people were saved by love, faith, and grace.
In the present kingdom, we are now saved by love, faith, and grace.
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Those who have not heard of Jesus or Israel, cannot be held accountable as someone who has heard the gospel is, if they don't know the difference.
They are still accountable, but not at the same level as someone who is taught. They are still able to be saved by love, faith, and grace like souls before the Law.
Once they hear the gospel, then they must believe and act on it. Begin and continue in acts of faith.
Animals who don't know good and evil, it is assumed, that they are sinless, since they don't know the difference.
"For charity shall cover the multitude of sins." 1 Pet 4:8. Love, faith, and grace.
During the time of the Law of Moses, people were saved by love, faith, and grace.
In the present kingdom, we are now saved by love, faith, and grace.
----
Those who have not heard of Jesus or Israel, cannot be held accountable as someone who has heard the gospel is, if they don't know the difference.
They are still accountable, but not at the same level as someone who is taught. They are still able to be saved by love, faith, and grace like souls before the Law.
Once they hear the gospel, then they must believe and act on it. Begin and continue in acts of faith.
Animals who don't know good and evil, it is assumed, that they are sinless, since they don't know the difference.
"For charity shall cover the multitude of sins." 1 Pet 4:8. Love, faith, and grace.
Ya need to quit making stuff up AB...
2017-1967 = 50 years - nothing, zip, nilch.
69 years if 1948 is counted - zip, nada, nowt.....
2017-1967 = 50 years - nothing, zip, nilch.
69 years if 1948 is counted - zip, nada, nowt.....
The flesh that is saved, when the time is shortened?
Who is the flesh that is saved? After the dest of Jeru.?
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30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[a] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[b]
Jesus resurrect 2000 years ago verse 3o did not say the sign of resurrection. It say the sign of the son of man, people see the son of man coming oN the cloud of heaven
so you believe this verse not coming yet don't you?
Jesus resurrect 2000 years ago verse 3o did not say the sign of resurrection. It say the sign of the son of man, people see the son of man coming oN the cloud of heaven
so you believe this verse not coming yet don't you?
Jesus stated that he would come in the clouds after the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled:
Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
He then states when his coming would be:
Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
Therefore the times of the gentiles ended with the passing away of the generation that heard him speak - simple.
Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
He then states when his coming would be:
Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
Therefore the times of the gentiles ended with the passing away of the generation that heard him speak - simple.
I'm sorry brother, don't get excited, just relax.
I have tied to explain it, but I'll try again.
V 25-28, Jesus comes to destroy Jerusalem, 70 ad
V 29, After the trib of those days,....... after Jerusalem is destroyed. After 70 ad
V 29, Powers are shaken,......... Dan 12:7 power of the holy people is scattered. Times of the gentiles, Jerusalem trampled. after 70 ad
V 30, The sign, .........at the end of the times of the gentiles, Jerusalem is restored to Israel. 1967
V 30, They shall see, know, ......... At the sign, people realize when Israel is restored to Jerusalem that the prophecies concerning Israel are true. They know that Jesus is coming. 1967- present.
V 31, The call for Israel (1929) to separate from the gentile nations and return to restore Jerusalem in 1967. (It is not the 7th/last/trumpet of the resurrection at that time, it is the 5th trumpet.)
The sign of His coming, for the 2nd resurrection, is the restoration of Israel to control of Jerusalem.
But the sign, is not followed immediately by His coming for the rapt/resur, years pass by.
50 years now.
----
I have tied to explain it, but I'll try again.
V 25-28, Jesus comes to destroy Jerusalem, 70 ad
V 29, After the trib of those days,....... after Jerusalem is destroyed. After 70 ad
V 29, Powers are shaken,......... Dan 12:7 power of the holy people is scattered. Times of the gentiles, Jerusalem trampled. after 70 ad
V 30, The sign, .........at the end of the times of the gentiles, Jerusalem is restored to Israel. 1967
V 30, They shall see, know, ......... At the sign, people realize when Israel is restored to Jerusalem that the prophecies concerning Israel are true. They know that Jesus is coming. 1967- present.
V 31, The call for Israel (1929) to separate from the gentile nations and return to restore Jerusalem in 1967. (It is not the 7th/last/trumpet of the resurrection at that time, it is the 5th trumpet.)
The sign of His coming, for the 2nd resurrection, is the restoration of Israel to control of Jerusalem.
But the sign, is not followed immediately by His coming for the rapt/resur, years pass by.
50 years now.
----
---
Well, you did leave out a few verses.
So Jesus came with clouds of armies to destroy Jerusalem, then came again AFTER Jerusalem was destroyed?
To....um.....have a resurrection and save the people who were already saved by fleeing Jerusalem before it was surrounded, 3 1/2 years earlier?
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But again, John lived to see these things all happen, right?
He saw Jerusalem destroyed, and the ToG's begin, but John didn't see the ToG's end.
Jerusalem was trampled until 1967.
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It is my opinion, that the apostles expected the resurrection coming to be soon after the dest.. Close enough that they expected, that they might see it. (we who are still alive)
Jesus had told the apostles that Jerusalem would be destroyed, and that there would be a ToG's, But He didn't specify a time in the years of men. That is He didn't say to the apostles, Jerusalem will be destroyed in 35 years or 37 years, as far as we know.
Since the letters of the NT were written before the dest (not Revelation, it's after 70 ad, opinion),
Their writers didn't know how long it would be until the dest. and then how long the ToG's, would last. So they thought they might see the resurrection of salvation.
But the trampling didn't end in 70 ad.
And what was the question, after Jerusalem was destroyed, How long until Israel is restored to Jerusalem and the times of the gentiles end?
The answer is given by the angel in Babylon in Dan. 12:7,
How long? How much time will pass until Israel returns to control of Jerusalem?
Time, times, and a half time, until the power of the holy people is scattered, (70 ad),
(My opinion, How long until Israel is restored to Jerusalem? Time, times, and a half, until the power of the holy people is centralized again, in Jerusalem implied. 1967)
The 7 times equal the time of the statue in Dan 2. The time from Babylon until the restoration to Jerusalem in 1967.
=====================================================
This restoration of Jerusalem is the end of the statue in Daniel 2. The gentile nations that rule over Israel.
The toes/(horns) have ended their control over Israel.
The statue is now complete.
The stone will strike, ...... the strike is imminent, When Jerusalem falls to Iran, the kings of the east.
Then it will be the rapt/resur of salvation, when Jesus comes for the kingdom, and then the end. 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24.
Well, you did leave out a few verses.
So Jesus came with clouds of armies to destroy Jerusalem, then came again AFTER Jerusalem was destroyed?
To....um.....have a resurrection and save the people who were already saved by fleeing Jerusalem before it was surrounded, 3 1/2 years earlier?
----------
But again, John lived to see these things all happen, right?
He saw Jerusalem destroyed, and the ToG's begin, but John didn't see the ToG's end.
Jerusalem was trampled until 1967.
===============================================
It is my opinion, that the apostles expected the resurrection coming to be soon after the dest.. Close enough that they expected, that they might see it. (we who are still alive)
Jesus had told the apostles that Jerusalem would be destroyed, and that there would be a ToG's, But He didn't specify a time in the years of men. That is He didn't say to the apostles, Jerusalem will be destroyed in 35 years or 37 years, as far as we know.
Since the letters of the NT were written before the dest (not Revelation, it's after 70 ad, opinion),
Their writers didn't know how long it would be until the dest. and then how long the ToG's, would last. So they thought they might see the resurrection of salvation.
But the trampling didn't end in 70 ad.
And what was the question, after Jerusalem was destroyed, How long until Israel is restored to Jerusalem and the times of the gentiles end?
The answer is given by the angel in Babylon in Dan. 12:7,
How long? How much time will pass until Israel returns to control of Jerusalem?
Time, times, and a half time, until the power of the holy people is scattered, (70 ad),
(My opinion, How long until Israel is restored to Jerusalem? Time, times, and a half, until the power of the holy people is centralized again, in Jerusalem implied. 1967)
The 7 times equal the time of the statue in Dan 2. The time from Babylon until the restoration to Jerusalem in 1967.
=====================================================
This restoration of Jerusalem is the end of the statue in Daniel 2. The gentile nations that rule over Israel.
The toes/(horns) have ended their control over Israel.
The statue is now complete.
The stone will strike, ...... the strike is imminent, When Jerusalem falls to Iran, the kings of the east.
Then it will be the rapt/resur of salvation, when Jesus comes for the kingdom, and then the end. 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24.