The institution of the real presence of Jesus' body in the eucharist.

[loveschild]

yeah and they won't listen either but continue to worship their idols and man-made "god" which they can physically eat, which molds and becomes waste if left on the plate and not consume, because in their minds God's power is not spiritual but material. they worship the works of their hands and not GOD who created all things, because they believe they can physically consume God. Which is blasphemy. Whether people listen or not is between them and God.

Ezekiel 3:19-21
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Yet, if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.
20 “Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die; because you did not give him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand. 21 Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man that the righteous should not sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live because he took warning; also you will have delivered your soul.”

God is NOT communion Bread or wine.

The problem is they are blinded to the truth. We must pray for these blinders to come off of them in Jesus name. I know someone who the Lord reminded her as a child going with a friend to a Catholic church and took the wafer. A demon entered her by that action. The Lord told her to repent of it and command the demon out in Jesus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

jesus also said that we should do the eucharist as a proper memorial to his death Each time we drink and eat of his flesh, broken and shed for us, we remember his death until he comes again.

Yes he did. Which is enough to prove this flesh jesus spoke of is not the same flesh he spoke of in John 6. Because in John 6 Jesus said we do not have to eat continually. Yet here Jesus says not only do continually, but often.

It makes no sense for Jesus to tell these people not to look for food which they must continue to eat, but food which endures forever, which one can eat and never again hunger or thirst. or die. Then tell them to eat it over and over like they do the other food. He would be contradicting himself.

Remembering is the actual (re-collection of the actual) event as it happened, the piecing together of the real event as a reality because in the setting up of the eucharist Jesus said this is my body broken for you.

So although eating the flesh once is enough, should we forget it then?

This is not the point. The point is what you get when you eat the flesh. All the things I showed you, which I am still waiting for you to comment on. Why would you have to continue to eat food which endures forever, and gives us all the things Jesus spoke of? You would not need to eat it.

Again, this flesh is not the same as the cup and bread Jesus spoke of in his last meal. For jesus never promised anyone who ate this food any of the things he promised in John 6. Again Context is essential. Context does not support the eucharist.

Too much already have we forgotten and so spiritualized the event of Jesus death the same way the liberals have relagated the events of the OT to mere story, mere words.

So although eating the flesh once might be enough, should we forget it then? And so disobeying the scriptures who said we should do this often.

"Christ, our Passover, has been sacrificed; therefore, let us keep the feast." 1Cor 5:8

This passover is regularly eaten, not just once. And then we will not rely on human food or drink like those who received the bread from his miracles. Instead we eat contiuously of his flesh and be satisfied in a way human food cannot satisfy.

Again this issue is eternal life. If eating the flesh of Christ will give whoever eats it eternal life and the promise they would never die. The flesh of John 6 is the gospel flesh. For it is what saves you. and makes you eternally right with God. The flesh of the last supper will assure no man eternal life. Not in this lifetime or the next.

 

[Hearer]

Yes he did. Which is enough to prove this flesh jesus spoke of is not the same flesh he spoke of in John 6. Because in John 6 Jesus said we do not have to eat continually. Yet here Jesus says not only do continually, but often.

It makes no sense for Jesus to tell these people not to look for food which they must continue to eat, but food which endures forever, which one can eat and never again hunger or thirst. or die. Then tell them to eat it over and over like they do the other food. He would be contradicting himself.



This is not the point. The point is what you get when you eat the flesh. All the things I showed you, which I am still waiting for you to comment on. Why would you have to continue to eat food which endures forever, and gives us all the things Jesus spoke of? You would not need to eat it.

Again, this flesh is not the same as the cup and bread Jesus spoke of in his last meal. For jesus never promised anyone who ate this food any of the things he promised in John 6. Again Context is essential. Context does not support the eucharist.




Again this issue is eternal life. If eating the flesh of Christ will give whoever eats it eternal life and the promise they would never die. The flesh of John 6 is the gospel flesh. For it is what saves you. and makes you eternally right with God. The flesh of the last supper will assure no man eternal life. Not in this lifetime or the next.

you are wrongly contrasting the eucharist with the food which lasts forever, You should rather contrast the eucharist with the bread given in the miracled of the loaves which Jesus criticised them for wanting more free handouts.

The eucharist and the bread of life are the same and are different from the bread which people ate jsut because they were hungry.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you are wrongly contrasting the eucharist with the food which lasts forever, You should rather contrast the eucharist with the bread given in the miracled of the loaves which Jesus criticised them for wanting more free handouts.

The eucharist and the bread of life are the same and are different from the bread which people ate jsut because they were hungry.

No. I am telling you what the flesh of John 6 does. Not what the eucharist does. The eucharist we are told is the flesh of John 6. How can it be if it does not endure forever?

As for the eucharist being molded with the loaves. That is just it. They came looking for this food (the loaves) Jesus told them not to look for this. But food which lasts forever. The food he came to give,m The food he called bread, and his flesh.

Yes, the eucharist would be like the bread. But Christ told them not to look for that. This is the point I am trying to make. As jesus said, Unless you eat his flesh you have no life. This flesh is not the eucharist.

The eucharist and the bread of life are not the same. They Eucharist does not give what the bread of life promises.

 

[Hearer]

No. I am telling you what the flesh of John 6 does. Not what the eucharist does. The eucharist we are told is the flesh of John 6. How can it be if it does not endure forever?

As for the eucharist being molded with the loaves. That is just it. They came looking for this food (the loaves) Jesus told them not to look for this. But food which lasts forever. The food he came to give,m The food he called bread, and his flesh.

Yes, the eucharist would be like the bread. But Christ told them not to look for that. This is the point I am trying to make. As jesus said, Unless you eat his flesh you have no life. This flesh is not the eucharist.

The eucharist and the bread of life are not the same. They Eucharist does not give what the bread of life promises.

if you do not contrast the eucharist with the bread they came looking for after the handout then you are confused. Whatever your argument it seems a matter of ideology and not doctrine. Doctrine has it that when you eat the eucharist you are eating the flesh of the passover lamb which is eaten over and over regularly. Even though the Jews were saved once in Egypt. I am sorry you are so confused.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

if you do not contrast the eucharist with the bread they came looking for then you are confused. Whatever your argument seems a matter of ideology and not doctrine. Doctrine has ot that when you eat the eucharist you are eating the flesh as the passover lamb which is eaten over and over regularly. Even though the Jews were saved once in Egypt. I am sorry you are so confused.

I am confused?

Lets see what you said.

The catholics seem far more in tune with the mystery of God's real power and presence through the Holy Spirit and will not take Jesus or his words lightly or for granted.

Especially when he himself tells us how solemn he talks and assured he is of his words.His words are very very profoundly said and so cannot be taken lightly.

John 6:53
And Jesus said to them, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, you cannot have any life in you unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood

So according to you the flesh in John 6: 53 is the eucharist. Yet now your saying it is not? Which one is it? Seems like your the one who is confused.

The bread of life (or the flesh of John 6: 53) is not the eucharist? or is it?

 

[Hearer]

I am confused?

Lets see what you said.



So according to you the flesh in John 6: 53 is the eucharist. Yet now your saying it is not? Which one is it? Seems like your the one who is confused.

The bread of life (or the flesh of John 6: 53) is not the eucharist? or is it?

it is the eucharist. But the handout of bread to the crowds whicih they wanted more of (which is not the Eucharist) is not the flesh and is not the communion but is a handout of corruptible bread (not flesh). Sorry but it seems simple to me.

Jesus taught them that the handouts like they get from the state (the romans) and the free meal they got from him to satisfy their physical hunger was not the eucharist of his flesh. The flesh then is the eucharist. The bread of the eucharist only looks like bread but it is the flesh of the passover.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

it is the eucharist. But the handout of bread to the crowds whicih they wanted more of (which is not the Eucharist) is not the flesh and is not the communion but is a handout of corruptible bread (not flesh). Sorry but it seems simple to me.

Jesus taught them that the handouts like they get from the state (the romans) and the free meal they got from him to satisfy their physical hunger was not the eucharist of his flesh. The flesh then is the eucharist. The bread of the eucharist only looks like bread but it is the flesh of the passover.

Yet the eucharist does not give anything which Jesus said it would give (if it is the flesh of john 6 he spoke of)? Now you have me even more confused. Or maybe it is you who are confused?

It might make sense to you. But I can't see it. If the flesh of John 6: 53 is the flesh of the eucharist. It would give everything Jesus promised it would give. The eucharist, as taught by the catholic church and other churches who practice it, does not give anyone who eats it what Jesus promised. Forgive me if I have a major problem with this fact!

 

[Hearer]

Yet the eucharist does not give anything which Jesus said it would give (if it is the flesh of john 6 he spoke of)? Now you have me even more confused. Or maybe it is you who are confused?

It might make sense to you. But I can't see it. If the flesh of John 6: 53 is the flesh of the eucharist. It would give everything Jesus promised it would give. The eucharist, as taught by the catholic church and other churches who practice it, does not give anyone who eats it what Jesus promised. Forgive me if I have a major problem with this fact!

the flesh of the RC eucharist gives to people satisfaction which ordinary bread does not. When Jesus first gave the people bread it was to satisfy their simple physical hunger. This different to giving them the eucharist. The eucharist was given later. Then that later bread was the flesh. That later bread (the flesh) is contrasted with handouts of bread either by him earlier or by the romans in thei circuses.

There were two instances of bread given and two teachings. The first was that they should not hunger for handouts, the second later was they would no longer want the handout-bread when they celebrated the eucharist but would have spiritual food (regularly for communion but no longer for mere hunger).

Simple as ABC with a smattering of bible knowledge and some history.

 

[zone]

but John tells us that Jesus is hilmself, in his very ownmost self, the Word. It is him who we are to chew and gnaw and eat.

From the original greek scriptures which in english we have a weak translation the literal words were used:

Christ was so ready to use the realistic expression "to chew" (John 6:54, 56, 58: trogein) when speaking of this, His Bread of Life, in addition to the phrase, "to eat" (John 6:51, 53: phagein).

ru·mi·nate
verb \ˈrü-mə-ˌnāt\
ru·mi·nat·edru·mi·nat·ing
Definition of RUMINATE
transitive verb
1
: to go over in the mind repeatedly and often casually or slowly
2
: to chew repeatedly for an extended period
intransitive verb
1
: to chew again what has been chewed slightly and swallowed : chew the cud
2
: to engage in contemplation : reflect


chewed, chew·ing, chews
v.tr. 1. To bite and grind with the teeth; masticate.
2. To meditate on; ponder: chew a problem over.


Joshua 1:8
"This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success."

Psalm 104:34
"My meditation of him shall be sweet: I will be glad in the LORD."

Psalm 119:97
"O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day!

Psalm 19:14
"Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my Redeemer!"

7881. sichah
complaint, musing​

Original Word: שִׂיחָה
Transliteration: sichah
Phonetic Spelling: (see-khaw')
Short Definition: meditation
Word Origin
from an unused word
Definition
complaint, musing
NASB Word Usage
meditation (3).

meditation, prayer
Feminine of siyach; reflection; be extension, devotion -- meditation, prayer. see HEBREW siyach

 

[zone]

the pharisees were super spiritual and would not get their mouths dirty eating/drinkinjg blood and enjoying the mingling of their blood with that of Christ where the two bloodstreams combine, what Joy.

downright creepy.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

the flesh of the RC eucharist gives to people satisfaction which ordinary bread does not. When Jesus first gave the people bread it was to satisfy their simple physical hunger. This different to giving them the eucharist. The eucharist was given later. Then that later bread was the flesh. That later bread (the flesh) is contrasted with handouts of bread either by him earlier or by the romans in thei circuses.

There were two instances of bread given and two teachings. The first was that they should not hunger for handouts, the second later was they would no longer want the handout-bread when they celebrated the eucharist but would have spiritual food (regularly for communion but no longer for mere hunger).

Simple as ABC with a smattering of bible knowledge and some history.

Sorry, I can't buy it. What did jesus say about the bread?

vs 35 - 40 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

Does the eucharist offer this? NO!

48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

Does the eucharist offer this? NO!

vs 53 - 58 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed,and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

Does the eucharist offer this? NO!

So who do I believe? Jesus or the catholic church?

Thanks But I will trust Jesus!

 

[Hearer]

ru·mi·nate
verb \ˈrü-mə-ˌnāt\
ru·mi·nat·edru·mi·nat·ing
Definition of RUMINATE
transitive verb
1
: to go over in the mind repeatedly and often casually or slowly
2
: to chew repeatedly for an extended period
intransitive verb
1
: to chew again what has been chewed slightly and swallowed : chew the cud
2
: to engage in contemplation : reflect


chewed, chew·ing, chews
v.tr. 1. To bite and grind with the teeth; masticate.
2. To meditate on; ponder: chew a problem over.


Joshua 1:8
"This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success."

Psalm 104:34
"My meditation of him shall be sweet: I will be glad in the LORD."

Psalm 119:97
"O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day!

Psalm 19:14
"Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my Redeemer!"

7881. sichah
complaint, musing​

Original Word: שִׂיחָה
Transliteration: sichah
Phonetic Spelling: (see-khaw')
Short Definition: meditation
Word Origin
from an unused word
Definition
complaint, musing
NASB Word Usage
meditation (3).

meditation, prayer
Feminine of siyach; reflection; be extension, devotion -- meditation, prayer. see HEBREW siyach

nowhere does Jesus say we must meditate on his flesh and mediate on drinking his blood. The life is in the blood and there is life in the flesh and we must chew and swallow he used both terms as the Greek puts it. The Jews well knew the differnce between meditate and gnaw and Jesus used it in the literal transitive verb sense. He was not speaking english and he was not speaking figuratively, The Jews were therefore appalled.

Besides, the expression you are referring to as ruminate only came into english in the 1530's

1530s, "to turn over in the mind," also "to chew cud" (1540s), from L. ruminatus, pp. of ruminare "to chew the cud, turn over in the mind," from rumen (gen. ruminis) "gullet," of uncertain origin. (source: etymology online)

the words Jesus used were literally to gnaw and chew and Jesus did not live in the 1530's speaking English to a stuck up bunch. The stuck up bunch he was shocking with his graphic truth were learned Jews.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

ru·mi·nate
verb \ˈrü-mə-ˌnāt\
ru·mi·nat·edru·mi·nat·ing
Definition of RUMINATE
transitive verb
1
: to go over in the mind repeatedly and often casually or slowly
2
: to chew repeatedly for an extended period
intransitive verb
1
: to chew again what has been chewed slightly and swallowed : chew the cud
2
: to engage in contemplation : reflect


chewed, chew·ing, chews
v.tr. 1. To bite and grind with the teeth; masticate.
2. To meditate on; ponder: chew a problem over.


Joshua 1:8
"This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success."

Psalm 104:34
"My meditation of him shall be sweet: I will be glad in the LORD."

Psalm 119:97
"O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day!

Psalm 19:14
"Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my Redeemer!"

7881. sichah
complaint, musing​

Original Word: שִׂיחָה
Transliteration: sichah
Phonetic Spelling: (see-khaw')
Short Definition: meditation
Word Origin
from an unused word
Definition
complaint, musing
NASB Word Usage
meditation (3).

meditation, prayer
Feminine of siyach; reflection; be extension, devotion -- meditation, prayer. see HEBREW siyach

Yes! Jesus explained what it meant, They did not see it. And neither does the catholic church. The bread which gives life. what is it?

vs 61 -63 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

The spirit gives life through the words. The gospel. We are to eat these words. meditate on them.

As Jesus told peter. We are clean by the words which Jesus spoke to us.

 

[Hearer]

Yes! Jesus explained what it meant, They did not see it. And neither does the catholic church. The bread which gives life. what is it?

vs 61 -63 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

The spirit gives life through the words. The gospel. We are to eat these words. meditate on them.

As Jesus told peter. We are clean by the words which Jesus spoke to us.

You miss the point that jesus was telling them what he had told Peter when Peter berated Jesus for saying he had to die.

When will this generation see, when will they hear? Jesus is saying if you cannot accept the hard teachings then you are following the flesh. For crying out loud.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You miss the point that jesus was telling them what he had told Peter when Peter berated Jesus for saying he had to die.

When will this generation see, when will they hear? Jesus is saying if you cannot accept the hard teachings then you are following the flesh. For crying out loud.

When will you see Jesus promised that whoever ate his flesh will never die, Never hunger, Never thirst. Be raised on the last day vs being delievered to him for judgment. Have eternal life etc etc etc. None of which anyone who eats the eucharist is promised?

The flesh is the gospel. It is what saves us. Unless we eat his flesh, we are not saved (Have no life in us)

It is not baptism which saves us, It is the gospel of Christ. That is what gives life..

 

[Hearer]

When will you see Jesus promised that whoever ate his flesh will never die, Never hunger, Never thirst. Be raised on the last day vs being delievered to him for judgment. Have eternal life etc etc etc. None of which anyone who eats the eucharist is promised?

The flesh is the gospel. It is what saves us. Unless we eat his flesh, we are not saved (Have no life in us)

It is not baptism which saves us, It is the gospel of Christ. That is what gives life..

that is what the eucharist promises. It is eating the flesh and the promise is eternal life with Jesus.

Baptism comes from the gospel and is celebrated in both protestant and catholic churches in the name of the father, son and holy spirit. Through this God accepts you. And you are then formed as a christian through your faith and the faith of others who guide you. All christians should then have holiness as the unity of their purpose in love and in the name of Christ the Lord.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

that is what the eucharist promises. It is eating the flesh and the promise is eternal life with Jesus.

So if I take the eucharist I am assured eternity in heaven? I will never die and have no fear of going to hell? No catholic I know teaches this.

Baptism comes from the gospel and is celebrated in both protestant and catholic churches in the name of the father, son and holy spirit. Through this God accepts you. And you are then formed as a christian through your faith and the faith of others who guide you. All christians should then have holiness as the unity of their purpose in love and in the name of Christ the Lord.

Yes but many claim that unless one is baptised they can not get to heaven. It is this baptism in water which saves them.

 

[Hearer]

So if I take the eucharist I am assured eternity in heaven? I will never die and have no fear of going to hell? No catholic I know teaches this.

Roman Catholic Cop: Five Reasons We Need Eucharist: 20th Sunday in Ordinary Time

also

The pledge of our resurrection
As a last effect we may mention that the Eucharist is the “pledge of our glorious resurrection and eternal happiness” (Council of Trent, Sess. XIII, cap. ii), according to the promise of Christ: “He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up on the last day.” Hence the chief reason why the ancient Fathers, as Ignatius (Ephes., 20), Irenæus (Adv. haer., IV, xviii, 4), and Tertullian (De resurr. carn., viii), as well as later patristic writers, insisted so strongly upon our future resurrection, was the circumstance that it is the door by which we enter upon unending happiness. There can be nothing incongruous or improper in the fact that the body also shares in this effect of Communion, since by its physical contact with theEucharist species, and hence (indirectly) with the living Flesh of Christ, it acquires a moral right to its future resurrection...HOLY EUCHARIST - THE OLD ROMAN CATHOLIC MISSION SOUTH EAST UK

 

[zone]

nowhere does Jesus say we must meditate on his flesh and mediate on drinking his blood. The life is in the blood and there is life in the flesh and we must chew and swallow he used both terms as the Greek puts it. The Jews well knew the differnce between meditate and gnaw and Jesus used it in the literal transitive verb sense. He was not speaking english and he was not speaking figuratively, The Jews were therefore appalled.

Besides, the expression you are referring to as ruminate only came into english in the 1530's

1530s, "to turn over in the mind," also "to chew cud" (1540s), from L. ruminatus, pp. of ruminare "to chew the cud, turn over in the mind," from rumen (gen. ruminis) "gullet," of uncertain origin. (source: etymology online)

the words Jesus used were literally to gnaw and chew and Jesus did not live in the 1530's speaking English to a stuck up bunch. The stuck up bunch he was shocking with his graphic truth were learned Jews.

WHAT A DISGRACE YOU MAKE OF HIS DEATH, KILLING HIM OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND TALKING ABOUT EATING GOD.

AT LEAST OTHER CATHOLICS ON THIS BOARD HAVE THE DECENCY TO NOT GO WHERE YOU'VE GONE.

SHAMEFUL!

MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL.

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