The Rapture Thief Robs Jesuit Futurism Of The 7 Years Of Tribulation

[KJV1611]

Verse 25 (don't miss it): "Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in Me will live [future tense], even though he dies [aorist subjunctive active]."



Paul spoke of "the DEAD IN Christ" well after the Cross point in time.

And of them, he says "SHALL RISE [FUTURE tense] *first*..."

Understand that Paul is tasked with disclosing doctrine pertaining specifically TO/FOR/ABOUT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY".

The "ONE BODY" to/of whom "our Rapture" SOLELY pertains (it does NOT pertain to OT saints, nor Trib saints, nor MK saints).

It WILL take place at ONE SINGULAR point-in-time.
(2Cor5:2-4 is just one passage speaking of this particular subject as it pertains to the STILL-LIVING portion of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"--"that MORTALITY might be SWALLOWED UP of LIFE" [our "change" APART from having to DIE FIRST like "the DEAD IN Christ" will have experienced, by contrast--bearing in mind that the "CAUGHT UP TOGETHER" part occurs "AT THE SAME TIME" (G260)]).


Jesus said, "I AM the Resurrection

AND the LIFE"




[see again Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence) I've continually pointed out (re: "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY")]

(Joh 11:25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
(Joh 11:26) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

There are two types of believers in those two verses.
The believers in verse 25 died but the believers in verse 25 never die.

Since verse 26 says that a believer will NEVER DIE then why did the believers in verse 25 die and have to be raised from the dead?

 

[PlainWord]

The only "tribe" that was "dispersed" to which Peter wrote was the SINGULAR TRIBE OF JUDAH, right or wrong?

Christian converts of the singular tribe of Judah (Jews) were dispersed. You can't spin this fact to fit some Jesuit Preterist fantasy that the tribe of Judah somehow morphed into a plurality of tribes simply because they scattered themselves.

BTW, I can call your idea "Jesuit Preterism" because it is more or less what Jesuit Ribera manufactured in the 16th century. However, it makes no sense to associate me with 70 Weeks "gap theory" when my Protestant Historicists like me flatly deny the existence of a gap.

Relying on Rev 7 where 12 tribes are listed and in heaven which died (came out of) the great tribulation of Jerusalem, I would say many were from the Lost Tribes, whether they knew it or not. God never lost track of them after they were taken by the Assyrians. Besides Benjamin became part of Judah, did it not?

According to Jewish tradition, many from among the lost tribes migrated south and were absorbed by Judah. Benjamin of Tudela, Son of Jonah, traveled from Spain in the 12th century AD in search of the Lost Tribes. In his "Book of Travels" he claimed to have found several of the lost tribes in Persia and the Arabian Peninsula. So who knows? It isn't really that important. They certainly won't be more defined in our future as you likely suppose.

Because you will not stop calling me a Jesuit just because they happen to hold some of the same beliefs, even though they were not the ones who originated Preterism, I must now continue to mistakenly refer to you as a "Daniel Gapper."

BTW, Christ was the first Preterist as He said he was going to handle everything in that generation. Ignatius and Eusebius were also preterists and they published their views long before any Jesuit.

 

[PlainWord]

Yup....I am going to need more coffee before I grasp and join this deep discussion.

Yeah, you might want to take a pass on this thread. It is not for the sleepy, LOL.

 

[Beloved132]

Yeah, you might want to take a pass on this thread. It is not for the sleepy, LOL.

Haha! I agree.

 

[Phoneman-777]

If there happens to be a second fulfillment that would be called a coincidence. The temple was destroyed twice. Was that a dual fulfillment? No, each destruction had it's own prediction. Since the presence of Christ returned in the first century, He fulfilled His prediction that His return would be to that generation. Although He didn't know the day or hour, He was pretty clear on which generation He would return to. He came back to the one which pierced Him. Nothing prevents Christ from coming back a third time, we just don't have a prediction for it. If He does return again, it won't be a dual fulfillment because He was to punish those who slayed Him and He isn't going to be killed again.

He did not return so as "every eye shall see Him" which pertains to "all the tribes of the Earth" and not just the one single Jewish tribe whose members were scattered abroad after the fall of Jerusalem.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Yup....I am going to need more coffee before I grasp and join this deep discussion.

I would suggest you make it two cups ... of 93 octane. Juan Valdez would approve.

 

[Beloved132]

I would suggest you make it two cups ... of 93 octane. Juan Valdez would approve.

HAHAHA. Heck, after today I just might need to. I mean....WWJD...what would Juan do?? PS: Is it Friday yet??

 

[Phoneman-777]

and here I thought I was talking to phoneman-777. LOL

PHONEMAN-777? Why would ya wanna talk to that jerk????

 

[Phoneman-777]

HAHAHA. Heck, after today I just might need to. I mean....WWJD...what would Juan do?? PS: Is it Friday yet??

LOL We used to work for a guy named Lloyd Daigle and whenever someone would say, "Yeah, Lloyd says we gotta do this and that...' this lovable but insufferable atheist in our crew would say, "THUS SAITH THE LLOYD." I'll admit it was funny

 

[Blade]

I got stuck here "Unfortunately, Christians have been fooled by the Jesuits into accepting a false interpretation of prophecy which says there will be seven years from the "secret rapture" These people? "The Society of Jesus is a religious order of the Catholic Church headquartered in Rome. It was founded by Ignatius of Loyola and six companions with the approval of Pope Paul III in 1540 "

I can't find it written "caught up" happens the same time Christ sets foot on the earth. Now those that are watching ready when He comes to get His own. See when Christ or in truth GOD says something it will happen. This so far never has -->He said He went back to make us a home yes or no? He said I will come back and receive you unto my self so WHERE (we know where He is right now in heaven) He is we will be.

We read this stuff as if when it was written all the NT was written. There was no NT when Christ said any of this. There was no NT when Paul wrote his 1st letter to Thessalonians. I take it as the holy Spirit through Paul said "we which remain". Not going to sit here and be foolish and say "what Paul was really saying was".

I hear "post caught up" from man not the word of God. Then so many times "we need to be tested". Yet I guess those that DIE before all that are SO BLESSED huh. They never had to be tested lol. Then I think POST people believe the great tribulation is either one day or its going to be as it is now. NOT even close. Far worse then anything in history. And if we can't live for Jesus now.. we NEVER will then.

I read what Jesus told the 12 and them Pauls 1st letter with "we which remain". He put him in that moment caught up happens. He didn't know when. And we do? No... so as they did I do.. watch for Him now. I am ready now. Some are not. So when it happens it will be as a thief in the night. Where Christ comes and takes not steals but takes what is His and no one even knew He came.

Ever watch the NEWS and whats being reported? Do you know how many believe "nothing bad is happening right now" hmm

 

[Phoneman-777]

No, the way to tell when a person lost the debate is when they deflect and don't answer the question. So again I ask, referring to 2 Cor 12:2.

Question: How is it that a man who died in 41 AD is raptured to heaven if the rapture is to be a future, one-time global event?

If you don't know, just say you don't know. The rapture is either a one-time global event or it isn't.

Sorry I missed the question. I'm not sure what visions and indiscernible OOB experiences have to do with the subject...I mean, John saw a great multitude stand on a sea of glass, but they weren't standing there when he saw it, right? It was a vision.

 

[Beloved132]

LOL We used to work for a guy named Lloyd Daigle and whenever someone would say, "Yeah, Lloyd says we gotta do this and that...' this lovable but insufferable atheist in our crew would say, "THUS SAITH THE LLOYD." I'll admit it was funny

Hahahaha, that is hilarious!

 

[Phoneman-777]

I can't find it written "caught up" happens the same time Christ sets foot on the earth.

It's not there. The saints are "caught up" to the "rapture thief" Jesus Who remains in the clouds while the destruction Peter describes at the time the Lord comes as a thief unfolds. Jesus doesn't set foot on Mount Moriah until 1,000 years later, at the time of the Resurrection of Damnation.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Relying on Rev 7 where 12 tribes are listed and in heaven which died (came out of) the great tribulation of Jerusalem, I would say many were from the Lost Tribes, whether they knew it or not. God never lost track of them after they were taken by the Assyrians. Besides Benjamin became part of Judah, did it not?

According to Jewish tradition, many from among the lost tribes migrated south and were absorbed by Judah. Benjamin of Tudela, Son of Jonah, traveled from Spain in the 12th century AD in search of the Lost Tribes. In his "Book of Travels" he claimed to have found several of the lost tribes in Persia and the Arabian Peninsula. So who knows? It isn't really that important. They certainly won't be more defined in our future as you likely suppose.

Because you will not stop calling me a Jesuit just because they happen to hold some of the same beliefs, even though they were not the ones who originated Preterism, I must now continue to mistakenly refer to you as a "Daniel Gapper."

BTW, Christ was the first Preterist as He said he was going to handle everything in that generation. Ignatius and Eusebius were also preterists and they published their views long before any Jesuit.

Brother, the 12 tribes of Revelation are symbolic. The ten tribes are lost and Benjamin was long ago absorbed by Judah. They have had thousands of years to dilute their bloodline so that none remain. Even the Jews of today are thought to actually be descendants of the pagan Russian Khazarian Empire and no Jews at all.

Yes, there are movements today where people claim to be the "true Israel of God"...Herbert Armstong's British Israel Movement, the colossal joke that is the Black Hebrew Israelite Movement...even Rastafari claimed to be a direct descendant of "black" Abraham, "black" Isaac, and "black" Jacob, and to be the leader of the "black Israel race" (which proves irrefutably that the most confused individual on the planet is a White Rastafarian).

 

[KJV1611]

Brother, the 12 tribes of Revelation are symbolic. The ten tribes are lost and Benjamin was long ago absorbed by Judah. They have had thousands of years to dilute their bloodline so that none remain. Even the Jews of today are thought to actually be descendants of the pagan Russian Khazarian Empire and no Jews at all.

Yes, there are movements today where people claim to be the "true Israel of God"...Herbert Armstong's British Israel Movement, the colossal joke that is the Black Hebrew Israelite Movement...even Rastafari claimed to be a direct descendant of "black" Abraham, "black" Isaac, and "black" Jacob, and to be the leader of the "black Israel race" (which proves irrefutably that the most confused individual on the planet is a White Rastafarian).

What makes the 12 tribes symbolic?

 

[crossnote]

PHONEMAN-777? Why would ya wanna talk to that jerk????

LOL...I had read your OP and had asked (in post #8) "Do you know the meaning of 'conflation'?" That is when someone else (Graceguy-post #143) spoke up and answered for you.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Brother, the 12 tribes of Revelation are symbolic.

Does God know where the 12 tribes are today?

I think the all-knowing God does.

And could there be a deeper spiritual implication?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Brother, the 12 tribes of Revelation are symbolic.

That is totally false. The Holy Spirit would not devote eight verses of Scripture to describe the 144,000 in detail, only for someone to come along and dismiss them with "Oh! They are only symbolic. God meant that passage to simply apply to Gentile Jehovah's' Witnesses" (since that is what the Witnesses claim).

When people start playing fast and loose with Scripture, they can make anything mean anything else. Thus it becomes a game of fantasizing rather than sober interpretation.

Those 144,000 redeemed Jews are a microcosm of redeemed and restored Israel, and all twelve tribes will have their allotted portions of land in Greater Israel, after the Second Coming of Christ (Ezekiel 48).

 

[Ahwatukee]

That is totally false. The Holy Spirit would not devote eight verses of Scripture to describe the 144,000 in detail, only for someone to come along and dismiss them with "Oh! They are only symbolic. God meant that passage to simply apply to Gentile Jehovah's' Witnesses" (since that is what the Witnesses claim).

When people start playing fast and loose with Scripture, they can make anything mean anything else. Thus it becomes a game of fantasizing rather than sober interpretation.

Those 144,000 redeemed Jews are a microcosm of redeemed and restored Israel, and all twelve tribes will have their allotted portions of land in Greater Israel, after the Second Coming of Christ (Ezekiel 48).

Yeah, they seem to be good at throwing out the literal meaning of scripture. Who told them that the 144,000 was symbolic? There's nothing in the context that would suggest that. Not only is the full number of a 144,000 mentioned in chapter 12 and 14, but it is also broken down to 12,000 per tribe. As you know, they do the same thing with the information regarding the thousand years. "Oh, that's not a real thousand years, but is an unknown amount of time."

Oye Vey!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Brother, the 12 tribes of Revelation are symbolic. The ten tribes are lost and Benjamin was long ago absorbed by Judah. They have had thousands of years to dilute their bloodline so that none remain. Even the Jews of today are thought to actually be descendants of the pagan Russian Khazarian Empire and no Jews at all.

Yes, there are movements today where people claim to be the "true Israel of God"...Herbert Armstong's British Israel Movement, the colossal joke that is the Black Hebrew Israelite Movement...even Rastafari claimed to be a direct descendant of "black" Abraham, "black" Isaac, and "black" Jacob, and to be the leader of the "black Israel race" (which proves irrefutably that the most confused individual on the planet is a White Rastafarian).

Why do remove the Sovereignty and power of God? Don't you think that He can reserve for himself the people of Israel whom He has chosen? Why do you put these things in the hands of mankind, as though God's hands were tied? Do you know what God knows?

Regardless of what you have believed and adopted, the scriptures say that from the beginning of the great tribulation period until the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, Israel is going to flee out into the wilderness where she will be cared for by God during the last 3 1/2 years.

Get away from whatever teachings you have been following, because they are definitely the false teachings of men.