Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
So the argument for OSAS is that salvation is a gift (Eph. 2:8) and since "the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable" (Rom. 11:29) then that means that OSAS (eternal security) is true.

If that is true, I suggested two more "truths":

First one:
I Cor. 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

So circumcision or uncircumcision is a "calling" and if the "gifts and calling" of God are irrevocable (Rom. 11:29 )then we will be circumcised or uncircumcised in heaven as we are here on Earth.

Second one:
And prophecy is a gift - and since the "gifts and calling of God" are irrevocable then that means if you have the gift of prophecy now you will have it for all eternity. !!! ??? but this is not what I Corinthians 13 says about prophecy: Verse 8 says: "But where there are prophecies, they will cease;"

Obviously there are problems with both of these: and like I said in an earlier post there are many more "truths" that we can find by stringing the words of different verses together.

You can see above for the conversation I had with dcontroversal about this: he hasn't answered . . . except for just reiterating that OSAS is true!

This post is not so much about arguing for or against OSAS. My major concern is that our doctrine comes from a clear straight forward understanding of Scripture in the context in which it is written, and does not come from stringing verses together.
Context dictates the application of calling.....and to take it to an extreme just because the word calling is used = a misapplication of the word
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Here is what I believe about forgiveness of sins:

(1) Jesus died for the sins of the entire world - that is - his death makes forgiveness of sins available to all who come to him in faith

(2) When a person comes to Christ in faith all of their past sins are forgiven because of Jesus' shed blood.

(3) When a Christian commits a sin (and Christians do sin sometimes :() that sin is forgiven because of the blood of Jesus Christ. God does not hold the sin of a believer against him: it is immediately and completely covered by the blood of Jesus - I John 1:9 - he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins


The basis of forgiveness is always the blood of Jesus Christ. I am not forgiven because I obey, repent, etc. Now, of course, when the believer understands his sin, the normal response is to repent and mourn over that sin.

My belief is different than the typical OSAS understanding because that understanding says all of our sins were past, present, and future were forgiven either when Jesus died (5 point Calvinism) or when we were justified (OSAS only). I find no reference to the forgiveness of future sins in the Bible. My sins are forgiven daily and moment by moment as I commit them, and as long as I am in Christ I have this promise of forgiveness and eternal life.

Hallelujah and praise the Lord for His sacrifice, for His love, and for His mercy!
My view.....all sins of a believer are covered and preemptively forgiven in Christ and covered under the blood of Christ.....the act of repentance in a believer is for the sake of restored fellowship between the one in sin and Christ and the body.

Where sin abounds grace abounds the more

If we walk in the light as he is in the light we have fellowship one with another and the blood of his Son Jesus cleanses us from all sin.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
They are not losers brother. Just mixed up in their thinking. Some have been truly saved, yet haven't had the revelation yet of just exactly who they are NOW. Which are His Children.
They are also confused that their Father loves them. And NOTHING can separate them from His Love!

Romans 8:38-39 New King James Version (NKJV)
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other CREATED THING, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


WE ARE CREATED BEINGS!
Bro.....there is but one gospel and only one that saves. If one believes into another gospel that is blended with the loss of salvation or a salvation that must be maintained, they have believed into a gospel of a different kind with NO POWER TO SAVE.....regardless of how sincere they may be!
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
They are not losers brother. Just mixed up in their thinking. Some have been truly saved, yet haven't had the revelation yet of just exactly who they are NOW. Which are His Children.
They are also confused that their Father loves them. And NOTHING can separate them from His Love!

Romans 8:38-39 New King James Version (NKJV)
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other CREATED THING, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


WE ARE CREATED BEINGS!
OK, you can say I am mixed up in my thinking if you want to, but please know that I understand and experience the peace, joy, and love of Jesus. God bless you, brother.

"Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine, oh what a foretaste of glory divine"
That is my story and song. PTL!
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,598
17,062
113
69
Tennessee
OK, you can say I am mixed up in my thinking if you want to, but please know that I understand and experience the peace, joy, and love of Jesus. God bless you, brother.

"Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine, oh what a foretaste of glory divine"
That is my story and song. PTL!
That's my story and song too, the blessed assured hope of salvation.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
Do you believe in Jesus Christ today? If so, you are saved!
If you do not believe in Jesus Christ today you are not saved.

Why make this thing harder than it is! :rolleyes:
You are not saved until you pass muster at judgement time. While on this earth we are born again.
I doubt G-d appreciates His authority being relegated to a 2nd position.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
Here is what I believe about forgiveness of sins:

(1) Jesus died for the sins of the entire world - that is - his death makes forgiveness of sins available to all who come to him in faith

(2) When a person comes to Christ in faith all of their past sins are forgiven because of Jesus' shed blood.

(3) When a Christian commits a sin (and Christians do sin sometimes :() that sin is forgiven because of the blood of Jesus Christ. God does not hold the sin of a believer against him: it is immediately and completely covered by the blood of Jesus - I John 1:9 - he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins


The basis of forgiveness is always the blood of Jesus Christ. I am not forgiven because I obey, repent, etc. Now, of course, when the believer understands his sin, the normal response is to repent and mourn over that sin.

My belief is different than the typical OSAS understanding because that understanding says all of our sins were past, present, and future were forgiven either when Jesus died (5 point Calvinism) or when we were justified (OSAS only). I find no reference to the forgiveness of future sins in the Bible. My sins are forgiven daily and moment by moment as I commit them, and as long as I am in Christ I have this promise of forgiveness and eternal life.

Hallelujah and praise the Lord for His sacrifice, for His love, and for His mercy!
You really need to study scripture...more.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,895
3,634
113
Wait, you mean it is possible for someone to have faith in Jesus, but because he took the mark of the beast later, he will not be saved in the end?

So it is actually possible to lose salvation then?
No, that's not what I said.

Guojing, do you believe Yeshua/Jesus is Lord of both the living and the dead?
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
My view.....all sins of a believer are covered and preemptively forgiven in Christ and covered under the blood of Christ.....the act of repentance in a believer is for the sake of restored fellowship between the one in sin and Christ and the body.

Where sin abounds grace abounds the more

If we walk in the light as he is in the light we have fellowship one with another and the blood of his Son Jesus cleanses us from all sin.
Not scriptural. I pray those who read your ;post validate your statements with scripture.
Why do you avoid this...."sacrifice for forgiveness is not available where sin is present".
what is it you do not understand about straightforward language?
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,895
3,634
113
Can you still be saved according to OSAS, even when you follow another Gospel?

I came to God 7 years ago. I believed in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. I said sorry "change of mind" for my sins. I believed in the imputed Righteousness of Christ, thought I was forgiven for my past present and future sins, had a relationship with Jesus.

When I came to Jesus on ______ lost the actual date, I was sealed with the holy spirit (A seal that cant be reversed).

I lived a lifestyle of ungodliness after I was saved, was I saved?

*Some on here tell me I wasnt saved(never saved to begin with).
But you then tell me I was sealed (A seal that cant be broken).

Why wasnt the holy spirit, doing the work in me for over 3 years?

Why did I bear absolutely no fruit with the holy spirit in me?

Am I still saved will following another Gospel?

You tell me I am sealed by the holy spirit (nothing can break that seal I received 7 years ago on that special day I came to jesus.

So am I saved still, even though I follow another Gospel now?;).
There is no way, you can lose the date.....

Take pride out of the equation and see what's left....... is there a hunger in your soul to know and love God? Is there sorrow over sin?
 
Jul 17, 2019
227
179
43
I have a question for preston39, nat2019, Guojing, FollowHisSteps, and maybe chester, and whoever else I forgot to list ...

You seem strongly attached to your doctrine, my question is, were you ever tempted to stray from your own doctrine even once, if so, what caused you to question your own doctrine and did you consider it as a possible weakness to the doctrine you believe?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Not scriptural. I pray those who read your ;post validate your statements with scripture.
Why do you avoid this...."sacrifice for forgiveness is not available where sin is present".
what is it you do not understand about straightforward language?
No need to reply to your drivel or religiously inept blather......
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
I have a question for preston39, nat2019, Guojing, FollowHisSteps, and maybe chester, and whoever else I forgot to list ...

You seem strongly attached to your doctrine, my question is, were you ever tempted to stray from your own doctrine even once, if so, what caused you to question your own doctrine and did you consider it as a possible weakness to the doctrine you believe?
Good luck migo with getting a straight answer......what they peddle is akin to a Street Organ player in Calcutta with a dancing monkey for coin........or maybe some minimum wage worker twisting dough into a pretzel.........it is impossible to engage with dialogue when those engaged cannot honestly represent the word of God......
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,895
3,634
113
Wrong

Repentance is the english translation of the greek metanioa, Although people have added to the interpretation. It is not found in the greek. We MUST us the greek translation over any english translation. The english can not over rule the greek. Like many wish it to do.
Okay, I'm wrong. Now, what is the point you are trying to make between the two? What is "repentance" and what is "metanioa"?
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,895
3,634
113
Undergrace - You cannot reject a statement

"Repentance is to leave the sin
That we had loved before
and show that we are grieved by it
by doing it no more"

by saying it is wrong, followed by "Metanoia ... not the word repentance, big difference. "

Part of repentance is changing our minds, because sinners do not accept Gods righteous ways,
and the first step is to change our minds and accept Gods ways are the ways of life.

But if one accepts Gods ways are the ways of life, then you would walk them and no longer
walk in sin.

So this means nothing, literally. There is always love and grace in Jesus, but also judgement
and righteousness. Every day people die, because of our sinful lost world.
God is not this fluffy, safe, everything is ok no matter what we do or say or believe because we
have this ticket. Yes if we repent, He will relent as He did with Nineveh, but only if we repent
and have faith in Him.
I don't recall anyone saying that God is "a fluffy, safe, everything is okay, no matter what we do or say or believe because we have this ticket." :unsure:

Possibly, you do not understand His love for us.........