Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[homwardbound]

So you you are saying wroks are necessary to be saved? Can a Christian not do good works and still be saved?

2 Timothy 1:9 who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Titus 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Whether a man works or not
God is not a liar, man is and twists the truth of God's free gift to all that beleive God, too dsimple for you maybe?

We do because of waht has been done even if we do not, God has, nad notihng can separate us from God
Romans 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

i have received from Father through Chirst and all that believe ahve the same and God does not change, man does

 

[homwardbound]

And James said by works a man is justified.

Since Paul and James do not contradict, it becomes apparent they are not talking about the same type of works. In the context of Rom 4 Paul is talking about works of merit which does not save and in the context of James 2, James is talking about an obedient faith to God which does save.

God works through a person that is saved come forth as fruit not waxed fruit as flesh is waxed fruit and when one takes a bite of waxed fruit there is left a bad taste in their mouth and seek the one and only true God leaving religion behind
For religion is based on what I am doing, not what God did. It uses what God did to one to work from the energy of their own flesh to be rewarded as if God the creator is a vending machine
God is the creator I am the creation, Creation does not create, creation responds to the creator
So is the difference of flesh and Spirit of God

 

[homwardbound]

that would be a faulty question.

the question should be can a person be a Christian and NOT DO work..

Then one must ask.

How can one who repented (truly) not do work
How can a person who is born of God not do work
How can a person who is given the spirit not do work
How can a person who is chastened by God not do work.

Thanks EG well truthfully put

 

[homwardbound]

How does one lose salvation ( fall away ), and then repent and come back to our Lord if there is not mutual effort ?

Father chases us through love and it is the kindness of Father that leads to repent and believe

 

[homwardbound]

James "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only"

Works do save.


If the man had faith only he would have died for faith only, being void of works, does not allow for him to do the work of eating. So for the man to be saved and live his faith MUST include the work of eating for without this work he dies. So at some point for theman to be saved and live he must do a work.

Also, if doing the work of eating saves the man from starving to death, did he merit his own salvation by doing that work of eating?

The ? here is waht works of self flesh or God's spiritual works?
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

 

[Vaudeville]

And James said by works a man is justified.

Since Paul and James do not contradict, it becomes apparent they are not talking about the same type of works. In the context of Rom 4 Paul is talking about works of merit which does not save and in the context of James 2, James is talking about an obedient faith to God which does save.

please look up justified in the greek. save yourself all that anguish.
james said men are seen/shown to be righteous (justified/saved) by their works. can't you understand what is said about abraham? for goodness sake SeaBass!

 

[homwardbound]

Funny cause Jesus, Paul, and James say they can.

One can taste see and act and if they fall away, walk away, there is no further repentance none
Hebrews 5:11-6:6
You know there are those that act for awhile and say they beleive and fall away later not being able to stand fast in the Faith that is given to us through Christ when all the troubles come along while trying to be one with God and Son, not seeing it is by trusting Father through all the adversity that comes against us, by Waht God has done for us.
where there is no further forgiveness given after the cross it is finished as Christ said it is

Oh foolish people we are: Galatians 3 so clear in Spirit over flesh worthyness

 

[homwardbound]

Hebrews teaches that if falling away were possible then restoration would not be possible. Heb 6:1-6

For the cause of Christ
Roger

And this truth will be known only if god will permit, Thanks Roger that

 

[homwardbound]

Hebrews 10 teaches of those who are sanctified and saved but were falling away, and if they continue in willful sin instead of repent for what they are doing. Then they will be in front of the judgment seat at the second death, and face a fiery indignation.

So maybe you need to repent , I have, Roger has ET has and many more here have and have received life in the Spirit dead to flesh efforts that do not please God, only Christ's flesh ever did this and ever will.
Did Christ not come to kill the flesh and give life new in the Spirit of Father more abundantly, and did he do this as he said he came to do this or not?
Your decision between God and you not me and you or anyone else here trying to show you truth beyond measure to our flesh dead Spirits that just want to be the center, maybe move out of the center and Father makes you the center as Christ made Father the center and we make Christ the center, each praising the other not ever being the Center of self, yet the Center by the praise of Father, making us one with Father as Chirst is one, through praising going out to the other and not self get it I pray

 

[homwardbound]

What sticks out is that not a single one of those verses say "belief only" saves. People must add the word 'alone' to the verse to get belief alone.. And when people starting adding to or taking from or re-arranging God's word, they no longer have God's word.

Romans 10:9 that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Matthew 27:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

Luke 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
Luke 24:6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
John 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
Acts 17:3 opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1 Corinthians 15:14 and if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

Colossians 2:12 buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
James 5:15 and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Faith does the saving and produces the works that I take no account of, not telling the right hand what the left hand is doing for rewards

 

[homwardbound]

I'm not sure how this might help you but Christ freed every human being. He freed all men from the bondage to death and sin. This is why we can even have a relationship with Him. Man is free to choose to reject or accept Him.

And I have, so what is this all about then adding works to what God gives?

 

[Cassian]

And I have, so what is this all about then adding works to what God gives?

Not exactly sure because you are the one that brought the text up. I just stated it was irrelevan to the topic since it means Christ saved all men from the bondage to death sin.

In other words it has nothing to do specifically with our relationship with Christ which is under discussion.

 

[homwardbound]

Yes, the Law of Christ, so where there is law there too is necessity of obedience to that law. so with what you posted above, what makes you think you do not have to obey this command or any other:

Mark 16:16 (NKJV) He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

The Law of Christ is to beleive:
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Are you still thirsting? having to add works of your own masquerading of your own flesh deception as if God is going to be pleased with your flesh as he is with Christ's alone?




John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water
John 4:11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
John 4:12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
John 4:14 but whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

By and through steadfast belief this is done and is what I am and many others here have been showing you, and so yet if you refuse to believe this, I wash my hands and just trust God to do in you waht you can't do inself ever as to be perfect ever and that your flesh efforts do not please God ever

 

[Cassian]

Unconditional:
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Yes, saved every single human being in the world from death and sin.
Again, irrelevant to the topic at hand. The topic is about our personal salvation, not what Christ did for us, so that we could have a relationship with Him.

 

[homwardbound]

Not of necessity but of love in Christ that the works are not our own works but of God , for now you are flesh of my flesh bone of my bone that we are espoused to one that is Christ that we are spirit and not flesh

Here you might like this:
F. J. Huegel:Bone of His Bone.Table of Contents

 

[homwardbound]

God does not do good works for the Christian but God told, before ordained (Eph 2:10) that Christian do good works.

I am simply trying to find out from faith only advocates can one who is a Christian not do works yet still be saved?

The good works are ones response to Father in trusting Father to do in us what Christ showed we could not do in the flesh under Laws
The flesh is weak, even though willing and just can't; read all the failures of Peter and Paul who was Saul, they are clear the to put no confidence in your own flesh, conme to the end of the energy of your own flesh and be alive in Spirit and truth where no sin can be done, since all sin is today condemned to flesh that we all are in that is unredeemed, think hard is God pleased by ones flesh efforts, people are and give pats on the back, but these are not from Father?

 

[homwardbound]

Some say works not necessary, but what does Jesus say:

Matthew 10:33 " But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. "

Matthew 25:45 " Then He will answer them, saying, ' Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. "

This shows that if you do not do works then you will be in a way denying Jesus, and if you do not do these works notice what verse 46 then says, " These will go to everlasting punishment. "

The difference of works flesh and Spirit is what we all need to discern you think, when it is straight up from Paul to put no confidence in the flesh, read it Phil 3:1-11 and is want want to continue to glory in works of the flesh Paul who was Saul has more to glory of

 

[VCO]

If people would use "logic", they would see that faith is a work.

That is not biblical:

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.

 

[VCO]

Faith only>>>>>>>>>>>>saved>>>>>>>>>>>then do works

That initial "faith only" is dead being void of works.





Who is it that God saves and why does he save them while leaving others lost? What separates/differentiates the saved from the lost?
(The devils have belief only yet will not be saved, so belief only cannot be what separates the saved from the lost)


Some quotes (in blue) from your post:


"Genuine SALVATION (past tense) always produces LOVE for GOD that manifests itself in good works and hunger for HIS WORD."

The implication of this is you have one saved BEFORE he even loves God, which is not possible at all.

"What we know to be the TRUTH, is that GOD's having SAVED us, brings our once Dead to the will of GOD human spirit, to become Eternally Alive to HIS WILL."

What if God does not bring my dead spirit to life and therefore I am lost. Whose fault is it that I am lost?

The prodigal son "came to himself" and returned to his father. So man has the will within himslef to choose to obey God or not, and those that choose to obey are the ones that will be saved, Heb 5:9.


Even though eternal life is spoken of in past tense in some verses, it is not something one possesses in this life.


1 Jn 2:25 "And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life."

Eternal life is a promise. A promise is something that has not yet been realized for if it has been realized, it is no longer a promise but reality.

Lk 18:30 "Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting."

Everlasting life is in the world to come, not in this world. In1 Cor 15:53 Paul explains "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality"

One cannot possess eternal life in this mortal, corruptible eixistence.


Eternal life is spoken in past tense in the sense that God's promises are so certain sometimes those promises are spoken of in past tense even though it has not happened.

Joshua 6:2 "And the Lord said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour."

God's promise to give Jericho to Israel was so certain, if they did as God said, that this verse speaks of God in the past tense as 'have given' them the city even though Israel was still camped outside the walls of the city.

In Rom 4 Paul quotes Gen 17:5 that says "Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee."

God in the past tense said "I have made thee" even though Isaac through whom this promise would be fullfilled was not even born. Again, God's promises are so certain they are sometimes spoken of in past tense. In Rom 4:17 Paul, quoting Gen 17:5, said "(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were."


So eternal life for those that continue to obey Christ, Heb 5:9, is so certain it is sometimes spoken of in past tense.







Again:

Faith only advocates says one is saved by a dead faith only. They claim it is AFTER one is saved that he does works.

What I am trying to find out from the faith only advocates is this: are those post-salvation works mandatory for the Christian.

If they say "yes" then they are making those post-salvation works necessary to salvation.

If they answer no" then they are saying a Christian does not have to do any works; no repentance, no confession, no baptism, no good works in helping fellow Christians and yet still be saved.....(which of course is not possible).

So this is why they are bouncing around all over the place and trying to avoid giving a simple "yes" or "no" answer to the questions I ask.

SEE, you start off with your presuppositions BASED ON FALSEHOODS.

WE ARE NOT "FAITH ONLY" ADVOCATES.

WE ARE SALVATION IS BY GRACE ONLY ADVOCATES.

We do not believe that Born Again human spirit is dead until it produces good works.

We believe that the Born Again human spirit has Eternal Life, from the very instant the Holy Spirit brings it to that Eternally SAVED Life.

Therefore, the genuinely BORN AGAIN Christian is one that WILL produce good works, done purely out LOVE for our LORD.

Likewise the false Christian will never produce those kind of good works.

 

[Jabberjaw]

That is not biblical:

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Your wrong, its biblical, but your right we are saved through obedience, "righteous works of obedience" just like Abraham was, we "through righteous works of obedience to Christ" are saved, not by "works of merit of the Jewish Law"