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Good morning buddy!.....you are too funny!...only you could "read" all that into what Spurgeon said despite the fact that he calls them saints and because they are not trusting fully in the Lord Jesus..and that they need His grace just like a sinner needs to trust in Him in order to be saved..........
E
Then Jesus lied
You will still hunger and thirst
You will still have the ability to die, You may not live forever
You do not have eternal life, You have conditional life
You are not assured to be risen on the last day, But you may still be delivered on the last day.
You just took all Jesus said in john 6 and made him a liar. No wonder people do not trust in Christ and Christianity.. if the one who claims to have removed our sin can not tell the truth, then who can we trust?
You will still hunger and thirst
You will still have the ability to die, You may not live forever
You do not have eternal life, You have conditional life
You are not assured to be risen on the last day, But you may still be delivered on the last day.
You just took all Jesus said in john 6 and made him a liar. No wonder people do not trust in Christ and Christianity.. if the one who claims to have removed our sin can not tell the truth, then who can we trust?
Grace doesn't shame anyone. There is no condemnation in Christ for having a sinful nature. We receive grace and power through the holy spirit to live holy lives while tabernacled in bodies polluted and corrupted by sin.
New grace isn't grace because it denies the need for grace. Instead it teaches that believers receive a special substance called grace that transforms them into entirely new creatures. People without a sinful nature don't need grace.
The contrast between GOD's grace and New Grace couldn't be clearer in Irenaeus' witness regarding the gnostics of his day.
New grace isn't grace because it denies the need for grace. Instead it teaches that believers receive a special substance called grace that transforms them into entirely new creatures. People without a sinful nature don't need grace.
The contrast between GOD's grace and New Grace couldn't be clearer in Irenaeus' witness regarding the gnostics of his day.
E
It means simply this
Do not taste me that's not enough, Naw me, Chew me completely up. So you know everything I have said, and done, so you can make a dicision to believe or not believe. (Have faith)
Whoever hears my words, and has faith in me To him I will give eternal life. And the father promised me, I will lose no one..
He lost Judas, but he did not, Because Judas never believed. As he said.. Not only did he not believe, he was the devil. Judas tasted, he never ate up..
Do not taste me that's not enough, Naw me, Chew me completely up. So you know everything I have said, and done, so you can make a dicision to believe or not believe. (Have faith)
Whoever hears my words, and has faith in me To him I will give eternal life. And the father promised me, I will lose no one..
He lost Judas, but he did not, Because Judas never believed. As he said.. Not only did he not believe, he was the devil. Judas tasted, he never ate up..
There is a way to lose your salvation ( as if it is "yours" that obtained it for you ).....but you have to be able to use a lot of imagination and have a very low opinion of our Lord's sacrifice and the integrity of our Father..( oh brother.. )
John 10:27-30 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.[SUP]29 [/SUP] "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] "I and the Father are one."
You have to be NOT a "no one"...so no one mean everything one else but you.....
All's you do is wrestle yourself out of Jesus' hand..then once you have Him beat..then you are ready to take on the Father. ( He's a little tougher but you will have experience now on how to pluck yourself out of His hand )
In order to scare Jesus and the Father first you must..I repeat MUST intimidate Them with your mighty power by verbally accusing Them....you can tell them that they lied when He said " I will never leave nor forsake you"
Then because you are in Christ...He is going to have to stop being a High Priest for you..( again God lied when He said He is a priest forever...)
His blood which He spilled for all sins that supposedly have been taken away..that has to stop too being efficacious ....Jesus has to stop being the Lamb of God.
Even in the Old Covenant the priest looked at the lamb for blemishes..not the guy who brought the sacrifice.. the Father looks at Jesus....He is our Lamb! He is spotless and blameless.
We are new creations in Christ. Born from above.
To be unborn ...This is like saying..ok..I do not want to be a human now...se..it just doesn't make sense.
.."...as He is..so also are we in this world.."
It's all really ridiculous..our salvation is not based on us..it is based on Jesus and His finished work!..He is faithful and grace much more abounds around sin...it's just plain "spiritual ignorance that has gone to seed " to think of His perfect work and that somehow it revolves around us and what we do.
John 10:28 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and I "give" eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the "gift" of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Romans 11:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
( Somehow some obscure passages of scripture that people take without looking at it in context nullifies all the vast proof of scriptures that speak otherwise of the integrity of God and HIs completed work....is it possible we have those scriptures interpreted wrong because we look through the wrong "lens"?...of course.. )
John 10:27-30 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.[SUP]29 [/SUP] "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] "I and the Father are one."
You have to be NOT a "no one"...so no one mean everything one else but you.....
All's you do is wrestle yourself out of Jesus' hand..then once you have Him beat..then you are ready to take on the Father. ( He's a little tougher but you will have experience now on how to pluck yourself out of His hand )
In order to scare Jesus and the Father first you must..I repeat MUST intimidate Them with your mighty power by verbally accusing Them....you can tell them that they lied when He said " I will never leave nor forsake you"
Then because you are in Christ...He is going to have to stop being a High Priest for you..( again God lied when He said He is a priest forever...)
His blood which He spilled for all sins that supposedly have been taken away..that has to stop too being efficacious ....Jesus has to stop being the Lamb of God.
Even in the Old Covenant the priest looked at the lamb for blemishes..not the guy who brought the sacrifice.. the Father looks at Jesus....He is our Lamb! He is spotless and blameless.
We are new creations in Christ. Born from above.
To be unborn ...This is like saying..ok..I do not want to be a human now...se..it just doesn't make sense.
.."...as He is..so also are we in this world.."
It's all really ridiculous..our salvation is not based on us..it is based on Jesus and His finished work!..He is faithful and grace much more abounds around sin...it's just plain "spiritual ignorance that has gone to seed " to think of His perfect work and that somehow it revolves around us and what we do.
John 10:28 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and I "give" eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the "gift" of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Romans 11:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
( Somehow some obscure passages of scripture that people take without looking at it in context nullifies all the vast proof of scriptures that speak otherwise of the integrity of God and HIs completed work....is it possible we have those scriptures interpreted wrong because we look through the wrong "lens"?...of course.. )
E
The apostle of grace called himself the “chief of sinners” (1 Tim 1:15) and ever since then Christians have been confused about their identity. They say things like “I’m a sinner saved by grace” even though the Bible declares they are a saint (Eph 1:1, Php 1:1).So what are you? A saint or a sinner or a bit of both?
Here is a grace-based teaching on Paul the chief of sinners..if anyone is interested in that...
The Chief of Sinners – Escape to Reality
Here is a grace-based teaching on Paul the chief of sinners..if anyone is interested in that...
The Chief of Sinners – Escape to Reality
According to the law
I am a sinner saved by grace.
If we do not realise we still do not live up to Gods standard, thus still by our own ability still deserving of hell, because we are a sinner, We risk falling into legalism (thinking I am more righteous than I really am.
At the same time your right, we have to see our position in Christ, Righteous, perfect, in Christ.
It is probably the most difficult thing a new believer will struggle with, And th emost important thing a believer must conquer, or satan will get in there and the war will be huge, That I still sin, Yes, I struggle with these things, But my position in Christ is as his child. I am loved and his forever. perfected in him.
Sadly I have seen so many new believers in Christ fall and never grow. because they could never figure this out, the guilt of their struggle with certain sin areas, and not seeing their position in Christ, If they would have just figured out, I am a "sinner, who is perfected in Christ" . And been open about their struggles, instead of hiding them in fear they most likely would have not been stuck in legalistic prison.
(I know I Know I promised to try not to use that term, But I am not talking about any particular person. and do not know how else to explain it)
E
lol. Nice try
Jesus said whoever believes in him will never hunger, never thirst, Live forever, never die, Has eternal life, and will be risen.
You called Jesus a liar
Faith does not fail. If you think it can, I question you aver had faith to begin with.
You do not go from trusting God for salvation, after experiencing his true love (eating completely vs just tasting) to denying Christ..
You hit the nail on the head. I love this process because it teaches me so much about the true faith.
What you have revealed is that New Grace faith is simply an identity faith in which a person is only as pure as he believes himself to be. Gnostic mysticism at its finest.
What Spurgeon said is that once a believer no longer believes he needs grace for his sin, he has outgrown the need for grace and has become ruined. This is exactly what New Grace teaches, and what the gnostics taught.
What you have revealed is that New Grace faith is simply an identity faith in which a person is only as pure as he believes himself to be. Gnostic mysticism at its finest.
What Spurgeon said is that once a believer no longer believes he needs grace for his sin, he has outgrown the need for grace and has become ruined. This is exactly what New Grace teaches, and what the gnostics taught.
I hear ya'...
I believe a lot of sincere believers have left the church ( not Jesus ) because they could not live this religious Christian life that was being preached to them. They loved Jesus but they didn't want to be a hypocrite so they backed away from the organized church.
Then there is the group that struggled with a certain sin and was never taught about grace properly and so they left because they were defeated. Constantly feeling condemned and guilty and full of shame. The legalists keep preaching at them to change!
The only change that is effective is from the life of Jesus in us and that only comes with the message of the gospel of the grace of Christ.
I believe a lot of sincere believers have left the church ( not Jesus ) because they could not live this religious Christian life that was being preached to them. They loved Jesus but they didn't want to be a hypocrite so they backed away from the organized church.
Then there is the group that struggled with a certain sin and was never taught about grace properly and so they left because they were defeated. Constantly feeling condemned and guilty and full of shame. The legalists keep preaching at them to change!
The only change that is effective is from the life of Jesus in us and that only comes with the message of the gospel of the grace of Christ.