Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004
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Just as long as you apply that verse in line with other truths in scripture.
John 6:[SUP]39 [/SUP]And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
So that tells me that you are not applying that verse in respect to all His teachings. but let's see how the KJV has it.
2 John 1:[SUP]7 [/SUP]For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.[SUP]10 [/SUP]If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:[SUP]11 [/SUP]For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
The apostle John reiterated the warning from 2 John 1:7 given in 1 John 4:1-7 about the movements of the spirit that everybody thinks it is the Holy Spirit visitations with all those signs and lying wonders. The examination of our faith is Jesus Christ is in us as per 1 John 4:2 and so when they say that Jesus Christ is come "presently" NOT in the flesh but outside of us, that is the spirit of the antichrist in 1 John 4:3 as stated again in 2 John 1:9. Compare below.
1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.[SUP]5 [/SUP]They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.[SUP]6 [/SUP]We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
So that was not about doubting that Jesus Christ had ever come in the flesh but how we test the spirits in that if any one says the Holy Spirit is here or there or falling on believers again when He is already in the believers when they were saved by faith in Jesus Christ in the first place, then that is the spirit of the antichrist that is coming over them.
These wayward believers will be left behind for not abiding in the doctrine of Christ unless they repent with His help before the Bridegroom comes.
Note 2 John 1:8 in blue and underlined in respect to 2 John 1:9. Those wayward believers are at risk of losing what they have wrought on that foundation by that iniquity, but He will not lose them. They will lose crowns, but He will still abide in them even though they are left behind. If we have confidence that He will finish His work in us because we are trusting Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to finish then we can have confidence that Jesus will finish His work in them left behind because He will lose none of all the Father has given Him even if they face the fire coming on the earth & the Refiner's fire that burns up their works on that foundation which was laid by Jesus Christ.
May God cause the increase..
John 6:[SUP]39 [/SUP]And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
So that tells me that you are not applying that verse in respect to all His teachings. but let's see how the KJV has it.
2 John 1:[SUP]7 [/SUP]For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.[SUP]10 [/SUP]If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:[SUP]11 [/SUP]For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
The apostle John reiterated the warning from 2 John 1:7 given in 1 John 4:1-7 about the movements of the spirit that everybody thinks it is the Holy Spirit visitations with all those signs and lying wonders. The examination of our faith is Jesus Christ is in us as per 1 John 4:2 and so when they say that Jesus Christ is come "presently" NOT in the flesh but outside of us, that is the spirit of the antichrist in 1 John 4:3 as stated again in 2 John 1:9. Compare below.
1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.[SUP]5 [/SUP]They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.[SUP]6 [/SUP]We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
So that was not about doubting that Jesus Christ had ever come in the flesh but how we test the spirits in that if any one says the Holy Spirit is here or there or falling on believers again when He is already in the believers when they were saved by faith in Jesus Christ in the first place, then that is the spirit of the antichrist that is coming over them.
These wayward believers will be left behind for not abiding in the doctrine of Christ unless they repent with His help before the Bridegroom comes.
Note 2 John 1:8 in blue and underlined in respect to 2 John 1:9. Those wayward believers are at risk of losing what they have wrought on that foundation by that iniquity, but He will not lose them. They will lose crowns, but He will still abide in them even though they are left behind. If we have confidence that He will finish His work in us because we are trusting Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to finish then we can have confidence that Jesus will finish His work in them left behind because He will lose none of all the Father has given Him even if they face the fire coming on the earth & the Refiner's fire that burns up their works on that foundation which was laid by Jesus Christ.
May God cause the increase..
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I do believe it's because Paul wrote most of the New Testament.
He also taught the theology of the NT.
Romans is THE book of theology.
You say Paul was taught by Jesus Himself, but actually he studied what Jesus said and spoke to those who knew him before starting on his missionary journies and writing his letters, which became the New Testament.
He also taught the theology of the NT.
Romans is THE book of theology.
You say Paul was taught by Jesus Himself, but actually he studied what Jesus said and spoke to those who knew him before starting on his missionary journies and writing his letters, which became the New Testament.
1 Cor 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
R
Actually Paul was getting direct revelation from Christ. He mentions it often.
It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I (Paul) will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me (Paul) for you, to fulfil the word of God; (the only way you can get a mystery God his is for Christ to give/reveal it to him)
There are other verses I could list, but I think I have enough. Ok, one more.
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Ok, maybe one more. Probably the best one of all actually.
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me (Paul) is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Paul's mystery was not after man, it didn't come from man, he wasn't taught it, only given by revelation FROM Christ!
It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I (Paul) will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me (Paul) for you, to fulfil the word of God; (the only way you can get a mystery God his is for Christ to give/reveal it to him)
There are other verses I could list, but I think I have enough. Ok, one more.
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Ok, maybe one more. Probably the best one of all actually.
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me (Paul) is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Paul's mystery was not after man, it didn't come from man, he wasn't taught it, only given by revelation FROM Christ!
R
Yes, Paul wrote 13 books in our bible. That has nothing to do with what I said though. I was making the point that everything I see you guys debate over verses. It's always taking a verse from Paul, and comparing it to Matt-John, Acts, Heb-Rev, and OT scriptures. That's not a coincidence. The verses mean what they say. That contradict Paul's gospel. But why? Because Paul has the MYSTERY revelations. A new gospel. A new dispensation from God. New instructions. A new creature; the body of Christ.
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
It's pretty clear in that verse above that the things revealed to Paul were not known before. He didn't learn it from OT scriptures. Christ revealed something new. And it says in that same verse about that if God had NOT hid it, Christ would NOT have been crucified.
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
It's pretty clear in that verse above that the things revealed to Paul were not known before. He didn't learn it from OT scriptures. Christ revealed something new. And it says in that same verse about that if God had NOT hid it, Christ would NOT have been crucified.
R
Who's going into the kingdom on Earth then? After the rapture, all believers are in heaven. If we go to heaven when we die, who's going into the kingdom? Nobody in the OT or NT, outside of Paul, ever thought they were going to go to heaven and be with the Lord. They all are looking for a kingdom on Earth.
Also note, that the verse says that Christ will NOT gather together ALL things in Christ UNTIL the fullness of times. That, my friend, doesn't happen till long AFTER the prophecies in Revelation take place. After the 1000 year reign on earth.
So again, who's in heaven during this time? You say everyone in the church is of one body; it's all the same. No division. But yet you yourself admit we are going to go to heaven. That's a BIG amount of time before Christ gathers together all things. Who exactly is going into the kingdom on Earth???? A different church many?!? Not the body of Christ maybe?!?
This means there will be THOSE in heaven and THEM on the Earth. This is the beginning to understanding how to rightly divide.
He that hath the Son hath life (eternal life) (1 John 5:12)-----eternal life is in the Son----if we have true faith we have works or fruit----this is natural of true faith----if we have dead faith---having departed from the Son we are fruitless and withered (John 15:5, 6) ---and will be gathered as dead branches void of the Vine---and cast into the fire----if we are justified by faith (like Abraham) (James 2:21-24)---this means we have fruit bearing faith-----we then have imputed righteousness like Abraham (James 2:23)...
M
First of all, we are not all "immortal". Those who experience the "second death" are not immortal. They experience eternal death.
Secondly, I don't think I misrepresented your views, as far as I know. You believe one can lose one's salvation.
I am saying - that is a conceptual impossibility. If you were supposedly "saved" at one point and then later became "unsaved"...you were never saved to begin with.
If you have eternal life...you have eternal life. If you're immortal....you're immortal. If you later return to mortality...you were never immortal to begin with. It's a conceptual impossibility, no matter which phrasing you may think you have dug up from the Scriptures.
I would argue that the phrase "losing your salvation" is a phrase created by people who invented the concept of losing one's salvation.
Now again though, these quasi-OSAS'ers (my term) you have been debating here...have their own problems:
They're utterly fuzzy-wuzzy vague on...when and how one determines if someone WAS SAVED TO BEGIN WITH. That is the question they don't want to discuss. As Jesus makes clear, not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" and invokes the name of Jesus...is going to heaven.
If you step into a church sanctuary on any given sunday, how would you (as a pastor, for example) undertake an examination of those people, as to who is a believer or ISN'T a believer? Not a favorite topic of (what I would call) the "misdefined OSAS" crowd.
Secondly, I don't think I misrepresented your views, as far as I know. You believe one can lose one's salvation.
I am saying - that is a conceptual impossibility. If you were supposedly "saved" at one point and then later became "unsaved"...you were never saved to begin with.
If you have eternal life...you have eternal life. If you're immortal....you're immortal. If you later return to mortality...you were never immortal to begin with. It's a conceptual impossibility, no matter which phrasing you may think you have dug up from the Scriptures.
I would argue that the phrase "losing your salvation" is a phrase created by people who invented the concept of losing one's salvation.
Now again though, these quasi-OSAS'ers (my term) you have been debating here...have their own problems:
They're utterly fuzzy-wuzzy vague on...when and how one determines if someone WAS SAVED TO BEGIN WITH. That is the question they don't want to discuss. As Jesus makes clear, not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" and invokes the name of Jesus...is going to heaven.
If you step into a church sanctuary on any given sunday, how would you (as a pastor, for example) undertake an examination of those people, as to who is a believer or ISN'T a believer? Not a favorite topic of (what I would call) the "misdefined OSAS" crowd.
This concept of being sealed with the Holy Spirit is very interesting and sounds really good.
The only problem here is that when we go to stand before God, we must be friends with His Son. If we're not, who's going to be our advocate with the Father?
John tells us that Jesus is going to be our Advocate, and already is.
1 John 2:1
And will Jesus be happy with you if you ignore Him, God and the Holy Spirit - since God is ONE - when He clearly states in Mathew 12:31 that any sin can be forgiven, but not the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Blaspheme means that you treat someone with contempt - like for instance when you feel contempt for God and decide to leave His loving arms.
If you really want to get into the seal theory, I'll be happy to, althoug I don't understand why it should be necessary since if you LEAVE the Holy Spirit, you are no longer sealed by the Holy Spirit.
You cannot serve both God and satan. Being sealed and abandoning God is a contradiction in terms. You CANNOT have both.
Fran
The only problem here is that when we go to stand before God, we must be friends with His Son. If we're not, who's going to be our advocate with the Father?
John tells us that Jesus is going to be our Advocate, and already is.
1 John 2:1
And will Jesus be happy with you if you ignore Him, God and the Holy Spirit - since God is ONE - when He clearly states in Mathew 12:31 that any sin can be forgiven, but not the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Blaspheme means that you treat someone with contempt - like for instance when you feel contempt for God and decide to leave His loving arms.
If you really want to get into the seal theory, I'll be happy to, althoug I don't understand why it should be necessary since if you LEAVE the Holy Spirit, you are no longer sealed by the Holy Spirit.
You cannot serve both God and satan. Being sealed and abandoning God is a contradiction in terms. You CANNOT have both.
Fran
I read the above twice and I'm not sure what you're saying.
1. WE ARE IMMORTAL. You don't believe that we live forever?
2. Eternal Death: Are you an annihalist?
3. I don't believe one can lose salvation- THE BIBLE SAYS SO VERY PLAINLY. YES. I Do Believe the Bible.
4. When I walk into a Church, I don't try to determine who is saved and who isn't. That's not my job. God could handle that very well all byHimself.
Fran
1. WE ARE IMMORTAL. You don't believe that we live forever?
2. Eternal Death: Are you an annihalist?
3. I don't believe one can lose salvation- THE BIBLE SAYS SO VERY PLAINLY. YES. I Do Believe the Bible.
4. When I walk into a Church, I don't try to determine who is saved and who isn't. That's not my job. God could handle that very well all byHimself.
Fran
Hi RTP
You're presenting me with stuff I've never heard of before, but I do know the bible really well - so it's difficult for me to know where you're getting this from.
Did you read the bible on your own and come to this understanding, or does your Church teach this?
To be quite frank with you, I can't really follow what you're saying because you speak to me as if I know about this and really I don't.
Could you just answer these questions simply and without using scripture - in your own words...
1. Do you believe there was one set of rules for the Jews and one for the gentiles?
2. Do you believe there were two churches or just one that started after Acts?
3. Why do you think this whole topic is important? What difference does it make?
4. Do you believe in the Trinity, that Jesus is God, that He died for your sins and that if you believe in Him and serve Him you will go to be with Him upon Death? Oh. And do you believe in the resurrection?
That would make things clearer for me.
Thanks.
Fran
You're presenting me with stuff I've never heard of before, but I do know the bible really well - so it's difficult for me to know where you're getting this from.
Did you read the bible on your own and come to this understanding, or does your Church teach this?
To be quite frank with you, I can't really follow what you're saying because you speak to me as if I know about this and really I don't.
Could you just answer these questions simply and without using scripture - in your own words...
1. Do you believe there was one set of rules for the Jews and one for the gentiles?
2. Do you believe there were two churches or just one that started after Acts?
3. Why do you think this whole topic is important? What difference does it make?
4. Do you believe in the Trinity, that Jesus is God, that He died for your sins and that if you believe in Him and serve Him you will go to be with Him upon Death? Oh. And do you believe in the resurrection?
That would make things clearer for me.
Thanks.
Fran
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RTP
I myself have noticed a difference in the words of Paul and in the words of Jesus.
I know you don't like what I'm going to say, but Paul did STUDY for 3 years before writing theory and letters. This does not mean that what he wrote was not inspired by God. It's not like God DICTATED what he was supposed to write.
also, please when you post a verse, write the book, chapter and verse. Sometimes it's easy to find, and sometimes it isn't and gives more work.
Paul did come up with some ideas that were not around in the O.T. because he's the one who speaks of the sin nature and of Grace (in the way we understand it today. God Always shed His grace on us) and of how we are to live in Christ.
But, of course! Jesus didn't exist before - in the sense that WE did not know Him.
So you believe that Paul's teachings are right, but no Jesus'?? Is what I said the "hidden mystery"?
Oh. And what does your last sentence mean?
And it says in that same verse about that if God had NOT hid it, Christ would NOT have been crucified.
Again, you didn't note the verse.
Help!
Make believe you're speaking to a 6th grader!!
Fran
I myself have noticed a difference in the words of Paul and in the words of Jesus.
I know you don't like what I'm going to say, but Paul did STUDY for 3 years before writing theory and letters. This does not mean that what he wrote was not inspired by God. It's not like God DICTATED what he was supposed to write.
also, please when you post a verse, write the book, chapter and verse. Sometimes it's easy to find, and sometimes it isn't and gives more work.
Paul did come up with some ideas that were not around in the O.T. because he's the one who speaks of the sin nature and of Grace (in the way we understand it today. God Always shed His grace on us) and of how we are to live in Christ.
But, of course! Jesus didn't exist before - in the sense that WE did not know Him.
So you believe that Paul's teachings are right, but no Jesus'?? Is what I said the "hidden mystery"?
Oh. And what does your last sentence mean?
And it says in that same verse about that if God had NOT hid it, Christ would NOT have been crucified.
Again, you didn't note the verse.
Help!
Make believe you're speaking to a 6th grader!!
Fran
If anyone is interested in this subject some more - Here is a 36 minute video where a Pentecostal minister that grew up in church and believed one can lose their salvation because of his religious church teachings and he had a hard time believing that we are safe in the Lord.
He used to say to those that believed they are eternally saved "if" they were in Christ to begin with - "So, you believe you can live however you want then and be a Christian." He answers that question in the video too.
Hebrews 5:9 " we have an eternal salvation".
John 6:37 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
In the Greek there is a double negative in this verse for emphasis which says "Iwill not, not, cast you out."
[video=youtube;OR7_u48zLvQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR7_u48zLvQ[/video]
He used to say to those that believed they are eternally saved "if" they were in Christ to begin with - "So, you believe you can live however you want then and be a Christian." He answers that question in the video too.
Hebrews 5:9 " we have an eternal salvation".
John 6:37 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
In the Greek there is a double negative in this verse for emphasis which says "Iwill not, not, cast you out."
[video=youtube;OR7_u48zLvQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR7_u48zLvQ[/video]
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R
I understand why you have never heard of it before. Most haven't and that's why I am trying to share it. It's been this way ever since Paul was raised up. There have always been a small group of believers throughout history who understood these things. Unfortunately, churches and tradition, even bible colleges, teach systematic theology. What is there is a biblical theology that's right there in the scriptures for us to follow? And not some theology man created. I'll answer your third question first because it's important to understand why.
"3. Why do you think this whole topic is important? What difference does it make?"
Satan keeps believers and unbelievers from knowing and understanding the mystery (it's the number one thing he is doing today), because it's that same mystery that will defeat Satan (i.e. cause the rapture and end-time prophecies to happen. Daniels 70th week). There are positions in heaven called principalities, powers, might's, dominions, thrones, and every other name that is named ("every other name" is most likely positions in heaven of NO authority. People who do not get the mystery truths in them with just be "another name").
These seats in heaven will be occupied by the members of the body of Christ. Currently, Satan has possession of these seats. This is the purpose of the body of Christ. We will reclaim the heavens, while Israel will reclaim the earth. The issue is that these seats cannot be filled if enough members do not qualify to hold these seats/positions. This is one of the major reasons why it's important to understand, but certainly not the only one.
There is also the issue of reward Paul warns about and warns not to be IGNORANT of it. You may believe that you can lose your salvation. Paul says otherwise; but he does say and warn about is loss of reward. And these rewards are not based off of how much "good" works you think you have done. These rewards are based on the DOCTRINE that you understand and what it produces in you; at least in part. If you are not building on Paul's foundation of Christ that he lays, than you are in great jeopardy of having little to NO reward at the judgement seat of Christ. Paul warns of building on the WRONGfoundation. That would be Peter, John, James, etc. They are not our foundation. Imperative to understand this.
Rom 15.20
Yea, so have I (Paul) strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man’s foundation:
1 Cor 3.10
According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I (Paul) have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heedhow he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Now notice the word "work" above. What work is Paul talking about here? Is he talking about works of the flesh??? No indeed he is not! If you know anything about Paul's writings, he is always crucifying the flesh and telling people to walk in the spirit. Let's see how Paul defines work in his epistles.
2 Tim 2.15
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness
Paul states that if you want to be approvedof God. Then you need to be a WORKMEN that STUDIES God's word RIGHTLY DIVIDED! Ungodliness comes from profane and vain babblings; that would be BAD doctrine. Error doctrine. Studying without rightly dividing or even WRONGLY dividing the word of truth. Everything in the bible is truth. Not all of it is written to you or about you. Rightly divide - TRUTH from TRUTH. It's all truth.
So this is only two of many reasons why this stuff I'm talking about is important and why it matters. Of course I don't have dominion over your faith. You have liberty in Christ. You are free to do and believe what you want to believe, but when the verses I have shown, throughout all of my responses on this forum, convict you - you have to decide for yourself whether or not you will put away your pride, ego, and sacred cows - and trust the verses; not your own understanding or tradition or what you WANT it to say and mean.
The bible says our purpose is to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery.
Eph 3.9.
Unto me (Paul), who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
To answer your other question about did I learn this on my own or does my church teach this etc. The way I came about Mid Acts dispensationalism (which is what this is commonly called) is a long story. But let's just say I studied through all of the different denominations out there and found that they all contradicted each other. I figured either one had to be right or they were all wrong. How do you know? Because I believe the verses for what they say, not what someone want's them to say. It's really that easy to disprove a teaching when the verses contradict what they are saying/teaching.
Some had things correct, but it wasn't until later on that I found right division pastors who showed me the importance of knowing who Paul is and what his importance is. And this is when I learned about the mystery.
You asked if Israel and the Jews had different "rules" than gentiles. Well Israel was under the Law. Gentiles were not put under that law. The bible says gentiles were cut off from God, and God put a middle wall of partition between us. Israels gospel of salvation required them to continue in the works of the Law. This is not true for us today in the dispensation of Grace.
Eph 2.11-15
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
The dispensations in the bible, the way Paul breaks them up himself, are called Time's past, But Now, Ages to Come. There was a time in the past, as it says in the verse above, we were without Christ; aliens and strangers with no hope. BUT NOW. Paul says "but now." If it's only until now than it cannot be before Paul. And it wont be until after the rapture will the "ages to come" will take place. Hebrews-Revelation (and also the dispensation of the fullness of times.) I have responded with a bunch of information. I think I will leave it there for now. No point in going any further, not knowing where you stand with everything I have said above. Most won't accept it. This message is only for those who read the verses and take them for what they actually say. I will leave a video if you are interested. God bless.
Also notice that Paul rightly divides his gospel from Peters. Their gospel is not OUR gospel. Two different dispensations.
Gal 2.7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me (Paul), as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me (Paul) toward the Gentiles
[video=youtube;hP_m1vhTGdY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP_m1vhTGdY[/video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu9zCdF9o8s <- part 2
"3. Why do you think this whole topic is important? What difference does it make?"
Satan keeps believers and unbelievers from knowing and understanding the mystery (it's the number one thing he is doing today), because it's that same mystery that will defeat Satan (i.e. cause the rapture and end-time prophecies to happen. Daniels 70th week). There are positions in heaven called principalities, powers, might's, dominions, thrones, and every other name that is named ("every other name" is most likely positions in heaven of NO authority. People who do not get the mystery truths in them with just be "another name").
These seats in heaven will be occupied by the members of the body of Christ. Currently, Satan has possession of these seats. This is the purpose of the body of Christ. We will reclaim the heavens, while Israel will reclaim the earth. The issue is that these seats cannot be filled if enough members do not qualify to hold these seats/positions. This is one of the major reasons why it's important to understand, but certainly not the only one.
There is also the issue of reward Paul warns about and warns not to be IGNORANT of it. You may believe that you can lose your salvation. Paul says otherwise; but he does say and warn about is loss of reward. And these rewards are not based off of how much "good" works you think you have done. These rewards are based on the DOCTRINE that you understand and what it produces in you; at least in part. If you are not building on Paul's foundation of Christ that he lays, than you are in great jeopardy of having little to NO reward at the judgement seat of Christ. Paul warns of building on the WRONGfoundation. That would be Peter, John, James, etc. They are not our foundation. Imperative to understand this.
Rom 15.20
Yea, so have I (Paul) strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man’s foundation:
1 Cor 3.10
According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I (Paul) have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heedhow he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Now notice the word "work" above. What work is Paul talking about here? Is he talking about works of the flesh??? No indeed he is not! If you know anything about Paul's writings, he is always crucifying the flesh and telling people to walk in the spirit. Let's see how Paul defines work in his epistles.
2 Tim 2.15
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness
Paul states that if you want to be approvedof God. Then you need to be a WORKMEN that STUDIES God's word RIGHTLY DIVIDED! Ungodliness comes from profane and vain babblings; that would be BAD doctrine. Error doctrine. Studying without rightly dividing or even WRONGLY dividing the word of truth. Everything in the bible is truth. Not all of it is written to you or about you. Rightly divide - TRUTH from TRUTH. It's all truth.
So this is only two of many reasons why this stuff I'm talking about is important and why it matters. Of course I don't have dominion over your faith. You have liberty in Christ. You are free to do and believe what you want to believe, but when the verses I have shown, throughout all of my responses on this forum, convict you - you have to decide for yourself whether or not you will put away your pride, ego, and sacred cows - and trust the verses; not your own understanding or tradition or what you WANT it to say and mean.
The bible says our purpose is to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery.
Eph 3.9.
Unto me (Paul), who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
To answer your other question about did I learn this on my own or does my church teach this etc. The way I came about Mid Acts dispensationalism (which is what this is commonly called) is a long story. But let's just say I studied through all of the different denominations out there and found that they all contradicted each other. I figured either one had to be right or they were all wrong. How do you know? Because I believe the verses for what they say, not what someone want's them to say. It's really that easy to disprove a teaching when the verses contradict what they are saying/teaching.
Some had things correct, but it wasn't until later on that I found right division pastors who showed me the importance of knowing who Paul is and what his importance is. And this is when I learned about the mystery.
You asked if Israel and the Jews had different "rules" than gentiles. Well Israel was under the Law. Gentiles were not put under that law. The bible says gentiles were cut off from God, and God put a middle wall of partition between us. Israels gospel of salvation required them to continue in the works of the Law. This is not true for us today in the dispensation of Grace.
Eph 2.11-15
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
The dispensations in the bible, the way Paul breaks them up himself, are called Time's past, But Now, Ages to Come. There was a time in the past, as it says in the verse above, we were without Christ; aliens and strangers with no hope. BUT NOW. Paul says "but now." If it's only until now than it cannot be before Paul. And it wont be until after the rapture will the "ages to come" will take place. Hebrews-Revelation (and also the dispensation of the fullness of times.) I have responded with a bunch of information. I think I will leave it there for now. No point in going any further, not knowing where you stand with everything I have said above. Most won't accept it. This message is only for those who read the verses and take them for what they actually say. I will leave a video if you are interested. God bless.
Also notice that Paul rightly divides his gospel from Peters. Their gospel is not OUR gospel. Two different dispensations.
Gal 2.7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me (Paul), as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me (Paul) toward the Gentiles
[video=youtube;hP_m1vhTGdY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP_m1vhTGdY[/video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu9zCdF9o8s <- part 2
R
The verse is 1 Cor 2.6-8
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Compare that verse with Rom 16.25, Eph 3.3-7, Col 1.25-26, Gal 1.11-12, Eph 3.9-10 (compare all those with Acts 3.21. What Peter preaches was MADE known since the world began. Paul says he preaches what was NOT known since the world began. Opposite competing wisdom's here. Rightly divide.)
The verse says that Paul has some mystery truths that have been HIDDEN in God since BEFORE the world began. Satan keeps the MYSTERY truths from you and all believers. It's our duty to make sure all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery.
The verse also says that HAD this mystery been known before, had it been written about before in the Old Testament, had it been preached about before Paul, Christ the lord of Glory would NOT have been crucified. Understanding why and how significant that verse is to understand can take a long time. It took me a couple of years before I understood what exactly it meant. I believed the verse, I just didn't know why or how? It never made sense. But I gave you some of the answer in my previous post to you.
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Compare that verse with Rom 16.25, Eph 3.3-7, Col 1.25-26, Gal 1.11-12, Eph 3.9-10 (compare all those with Acts 3.21. What Peter preaches was MADE known since the world began. Paul says he preaches what was NOT known since the world began. Opposite competing wisdom's here. Rightly divide.)
The verse says that Paul has some mystery truths that have been HIDDEN in God since BEFORE the world began. Satan keeps the MYSTERY truths from you and all believers. It's our duty to make sure all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery.
The verse also says that HAD this mystery been known before, had it been written about before in the Old Testament, had it been preached about before Paul, Christ the lord of Glory would NOT have been crucified. Understanding why and how significant that verse is to understand can take a long time. It took me a couple of years before I understood what exactly it meant. I believed the verse, I just didn't know why or how? It never made sense. But I gave you some of the answer in my previous post to you.
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