Not By Works

[Ariel82]

Lets examine them..,,,

Let's post some more commentaries that agree with me.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
For if God spared not the natural branches,.... That is, executed his righteous judgments, inflicted due punishment upon the Jews, unchurched them, and stripped them of those privileges they enjoyed in a church state; who were the natural descendants of Abraham; were naturally, and as born into the world, in a national church state and in that national covenant God made with that people; to whom belonged a national adoption, in which sense they were the sons of God, his firstborn; they were chosen by him as a special and peculiar people, to very great favours and privileges; they were Christ's own, he came of them according to the flesh, and was particularly sent unto them, and ministered among them; wherefore, if, at last, God did not spare this people, though he had for a long time done it, but stirred up all his wrath against them, they disbelieving his Son, rejecting and despising the Messiah, and salvation by him, this should awaken the fear, care, and caution of the Gentiles in a church state, lest if they behave not well, he should deal in like manner with them:take heed lest he also spare not thee; for whatever was done to the Jews in former or latter times, are written for the instruction and admonition of Gentiles; and the use they are to make thereof is, to be careful and cautious, lest by imbibing principles derogatory from the grace of God and glory of Christ, or by an unbecoming walk and conversation they provoke the Lord to unchurch them as he has done the Jews before them; and which they may the rather fear, since the Jews were the natural branches, and they formerly strangers and aliens.

why were they rejected? They rejected Jesus. Many people raised in the church also reject Jesus and are just playing Church because of their parents faith forces them to attend.

Expositor's Greek Testament
Romans 11:21. As far as comparisons can be made at all in such things, the Jews had been more securely invested in the kingdom than the Gentiles. They were, in the language of the figure, not artificially grafted, but native branches, on the tree of God’s people; yet even that did not prevent Him from cutting off those who did not believe. And if He did not spare them, He will not spare Gentiles either, if in pride they fall from faith. On εἰ … οὐκ ἐφείσατο see Winer, 599 f. The true reading of the last word is φείσεται (not φείσηται), but Weiss would retain μήπως (see crit. note) even with this future, and supply the missing link of thought from φοβοῦ: one may fear that he will not, etc. The ironical reserve of this (though the future makes the thing to be feared as certain as possible) is quite Pauline, and the μήπως ([7] [8] [9] [10]) may be genuine.

Barnes notes
For if God ... - If God did not refrain from rejecting the Jews who became unbelievers, assuredly he will not refrain from rejecting you in the same circumstances. It may be supposed that he will be quite as ready to reject the ingrafted branches, as to cast off those which belonged to the parent stock. The situation of the Gentiles is not such as to give them any security over the condition of the rejected Jew.

Again if you believe a false gospel as the Jews did and reject the Gospel of grace...no matter how much you claim to love God and attend church, you will be a dead branch and be cut off.

Pulpit Commentary Homiletics
II. But this very position was fraught with danger. "Glory not;" "Thou standest by thy faith." The danger of false pride was not an imaginary one; Gentiles probably did glory over the Jews. Nay, do they not glory still over these "unbelievers"? Do they not sometimes persecute them even to death? But how false was the pride! They were only grafted branches, borne by the ancient root of Israel. And yet they deported themselves with such consequence, and affected to despise their neighbour branches, as well as those that had been broken off. Another danger was involved in this: false, uncharitable pride was perilously near to a damnable unbelief; it was indeed that unbelief begun. Why had these branches been broken from the ancient tree? "Because of their unbelief." Was not the same excision impending over unbelief still? Instead, then, of pride, let them cherish a holy fear, and walk humbly with their God. For most surely, if God spared not the natural branches, neither would he spare them.

pride is wrong. You should be humble before God...

Don't see anything about lose of salvation there.

It seems you are adding your spin to the commentary to support your doctrine that is not there.

 

[Ariel82]

Commentary
Matthew Henry Commentary
2:1-10 Sin is the death of the soul. A man dead in trespasses and sins has no desire for spiritual pleasures. When we look upon a corpse, it gives an awful feeling. A never-dying spirit is now fled, and has left nothing but the ruins of a man. But if we viewed things aright, we should be far more affected by the thought of a dead soul, a lost, fallen spirit. A state of sin is a state of conformity to this world. Wicked men are slaves to Satan. Satan is the author of that proud, carnal disposition which there is in ungodly men; he rules in the hearts of men. From Scripture it is clear, that whether men have been most prone to sensual or to spiritual wickedness, all men, being naturally children of disobedience, are also by nature children of wrath. What reason have sinners, then, to seek earnestly for that grace which will make them, of children of wrath, children of God and heirs of glory! God's eternal love or good-will toward his creatures, is the fountain whence all his mercies flow to us; and that love of God is great love, and that mercy is rich mercy. And every converted sinner is a saved sinner; delivered from sin and wrath. The grace that saves is the free, undeserved goodness and favour of God; and he saves, not by the works of the law, but through faith in Christ Jesus. Grace in the soul is a new life in the soul. A regenerated sinner becomes a living soul; he lives a life of holiness, being born of God: he lives, being delivered from the guilt of sin, by pardoning and justifying grace. Sinners roll themselves in the dust; sanctified souls sit in heavenly places, are raised above this world, by Christ's grace. The goodness of God in converting and saving sinners heretofore, encourages others in after-time, to hope in his grace and mercy. Our faith, our conversion, and our eternal salvation, are not of works, lest any man should boast. These things are not brought to pass by any thing done by us, therefore all boasting is shut out. All is the free gift of God, and the effect of being quickened by his power. It was his purpose, to which he prepared us, by blessing us with the knowledge of his will, and his Holy Spirit producing such a change in us, that we should glorify God by our good conversation, and perseverance in holiness. None can from Scripture abuse this doctrine, or accuse it of any tendency to evil. All who do so, are without excuse.


Ephesians 2:9 Commentaries
Study Bible
Alive with Christ
…8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.…


Berean Study Bible · Download
Cross References
Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

1 Corinthians 1:29
so that no one may boast in His presence.

2 Timothy 1:9
He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not because of our own works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time eternal.

Titus 3:5
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.


Treasury of Scripture
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 3:20,27,28 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified …
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he has whereof to glory; …
Romans 9:11,16 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good …
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is …
1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence…
2 Timothy 1:9 Who has saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according …
Titus 3:3-5 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, …

 

[Meggido]

Didn't you state in the thread that you believes in eternal security? Which is it?

I never said this..I have always stated that I do not believe one can keep or lose their own salvation.

 

[PennEd]

Hahahahahahaha.

When Trump was on the ticket, it was amazing how many wanted him and Hillary was
the devil. It seemed like most of the americans here on cc loved him so much, and the liberals
were the most evil group in the world.







I think the above shows where your loyalties lie.

This is not difficult to get for most people. And I do not have great insight, just good
observational skills.

Man, what a shame that you are so committed to winning a point you scour past threads in an attempt to achieve a "gotcha" moment.

For the record, this time last year, I remember saying " I just can't vote for Trump" Obviously not Hillary either. I thought I'd stay home
At the end of the day, I voted on platform, and sheer disgust at the media, and voted Trump.

It would not be possible for me to be more happy and impressed with the accomplishments of President Trump to date.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Period. lol. This means you are defining what is being said, Period.

You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.”
rom 11:19

Let me take your idea. You means a group. Now each individual either is in the
Kingdom or not, not a group. The group of individuals can be put together and
addressed as a whole, but each individual makes up the group because of what happens
to them individually.

So it is impossible to say, the group is grafted in, and broken off, but the individual is
not. That is just meaningless and being used to avoid the idea one can be in Christ
and then be "broken off"

But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
Rom 11:20-21

The above is direct. We stand in Christ by faith, but if we fall into unbelief you will be be broken off.
It is very clear.

what do you think your doing Peter. Your stating your right, Your defining who they are. Your not using the word to define

Who are they?

[SUP]11 [/SUP]I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

Gentile vs Israel. No induviduals in context here


[SUP]13 [/SUP]For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, [SUP]14[/SUP]if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

Again, Gentile vs Israel. Not individuals.

But hey, We have Peter's private interpretation here (to use a catholic pun so many like to use.. )

To repeat. Isreal was broken off, Gentiles were grafted in, (Isreal was devestated in 70 AD nd no longer represented the church, it was given to the gentile

But the gentile should not be proud and boast.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG - really. You are so lame. I showed g7 quoted the article by Paul Ellis as his position.
Is it so hard to admit you got it wrong?

Reported. One again your name calling is for the birds peter

I opened the quote and it took me to an article.

So I must ask, why did you not also post all the times Grace777 said he did not agree with that part of the article. Your being deceptive peter.

That is sin..

 

[Meggido]

I believe the young rich ruler buried Jesus in His own tomb as befitting a king...

What is the point of your other questions?

Did I some how offend you and incorrectly summarize your response?

This does not answer the question.

Nope not offended by you or anyone here....

 

[Ariel82]

I never said this..I have always stated that I do not believe one can keep or lose their own salvation.

????

Hmmmm...

So this guy wasn't you four days ago?

Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
I believe God saved us by his grace when we believed. And we can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.

I also do not believe that the free gift in Eph 2.8-9 is the free gift of God or Jesus's saving faith. I believe the free gift in this verse is salvation. This will be met with resistance by some here, but I do not want it to be a source of contention. I believe saving faith is a form of personal faith.

Since I interpret that a measure of personal saving faith is required to be saved, I also believe that a personal saving faith can be shipwrecked through backsliding, falling out of relationship with Father, falling away due to deception, these are what I believe are by products of failing to abide with Christ and being one with him.

JJesus said in John 17.3-
3 This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

That word know means being intimate or to become one with another. It is actually the Greek word for sexual intercourse and it is the same in the Hebrew rendering.

Abiding is very central to the Gospel message and Jesus preached it extensively, abiding is not works we do or practical righteousness. Abiding is resting in what Jesus has done for you, period.

God offers me eternal covenant relationship.
God does not break covenant with me and I do not "lose" my salvation if I do not perform "works" or obey laws or commands, etc"
I stay in eternal covenant relationship with father, because of my love for him based on all that Jesus did for me and he did alone.
God's love keeps me in the relationship, I would never want to leave the love of Father,
God's side of the eternal covenant relationship never fails and is always there.
This is what I define "eternal security" to be.

 

[Ariel82]

This does not answer the question.

Nope not offended by you or anyone here....

Yeah it's an answer ...probably not the one you want or expected but an answer nonetheless. You still haven't answered he point of your questions....someone asked what you posted in response to their question,because they couldn't find it.
.I gave them a summary.

You give a list of questions that pertain to this discussion of "not by works" how exactly?

Didn't realise there was a discussion needed since I agreed with your point.

 

[willybob]

Meggido,
I respect and admire you for what you do.

It's a WORK!!! And some work it is.
Call it what you will....


i wanted to ask you re a sentence of yours...
First, it is not evidence of salvation, it is evidence you are a disciple of Jesus-He said so in John 15.8

What's the difference?
If you're saved, you're a disciple of Jesus.
If you're a disciple of Jesus, you're saved.

It's the same thing...

Also, Luke 7:40-43 comes to mind.
The more we are forgiven, the more we love.

greetings Fran

i find what you said here mentally stimulating, in that it caused me to reflect of what Jesus said, He didn't instruct the 12 to go out and get people saved, but rather told them to "go ye forth and make disciples".. if we become disciples of Christ being baptized in the Holy Ghost we can walk after the Spirit of the law... the church concentrates on getting people saved while still in there sins, in order to enhance nickels, numbers, and noses, as one brother said........the focus should be first the baptism of repentance, and making disciples, then salvation takes care of itself..

 

[Stephen63]

Luke 12:41
​

41Peter said, “Lord, are You addressing this parable to us, or to everyone else as well?” 42And the Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time? 43“Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 44“Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45“But if that slave says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and begins to beat the slaves, bothmen and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. 47“And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

 

[willybob]

What is the work of unbelief?

Unrighteous or righteous?

Your questions are very good FGT....some dont actually perceive that they are doing works 24/7, in fact its unavoidable,,,,,,,, its either the works of righteousness, or the works of the devil....be blessed

 

[notuptome]

Luke 12:41
​

41Peter said, “Lord, are You addressing this parable to us, or to everyone else as well?” 42And the Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time? 43“Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 44“Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45“But if that slave says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and begins to beat the slaves, bothmen and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. 47“And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

No commentary?

Passage is describing Israel and her failure to obey Jehovah.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Stephen63]

No commentary?

Passage is describing Israel and her failure to obey Jehovah.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I usually wait for the sons of eisegesis to post all their false beliefs before doing that.

 

[willybob]

Don't you see the duplicity in your own words?
What do you think the Holy Spirit and transforming influence looks like in a person if not in good deeds????

"16“Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16 NASB)

very true PHART,,,,,,,,John the baptizer and Paul said let your deeds prove your faith..bringing forth works worthy of repentance

 

[willybob]

It's interesting how we read ONLY what we LIKE, and not the Whole versse or verses.

Please see the highlighted. I used big lettering because you already used red. (I'm not screaming)
You DID MISS 1 Peter 1:2



1 Peter 1:1-2 New International Version (NIV)

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.


You have faith............... You have salvation.
You have no faith......... You have no salvation.

true again Fran,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the apostle Paul preached the full weight of scripture, he said he had no blood on his hands, in that he brought forth both the goodness and severity of God.....many only focus on the goodness, while ignoring the severity and warnings given in the text..

 

[JIMBO43]

Stones don't roll.

Except for the Rolling Stones.
Of which you are not one.

And as the saying goes a rolling stone will gather no moss,,, meaning the workers against will gather no rewards..

 

[willybob]

People who say it's impossible to confess every single must think we sin non stop.... every move we make is not a "sin" in progress. There's so many I can't count, as if God's unjust.. oh wait he's not, BC nowhere does he say "repent".. Some think the cross did away with the act of repentance but it did not... Jesus clearly said we will be judged by the words He spoke.. If anyone thinks they can act contrary to them, they will be disappointed come time to face Him

Yes; repentance is the first work of faith.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Hahahahahahaha.

When Trump was on the ticket, it was amazing how many wanted him and Hillary was
the devil. It seemed like most of the americans here on cc loved him so much, and the liberals
were the most evil group in the world.







I think the above shows where your loyalties lie.

This is not difficult to get for most people. And I do not have great insight, just good
observational skills.

Do you see the word Trump in anything you posted?

and your point is moot.....I think both parties are full of crapola and the fact that I despise the Democrats more does not mean I embrace the Republicans....

This just proves what exactly....that you can read one to three statements and then post what I believe about another group that is not even mentioned....

Par for the course and exactly why you are the only person I have ever blocked........

 

[willybob]

[SIZE=+1]4102 pístis (from 3982/peithô, "persuade, be persuaded") – properly, persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Faith (4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102/pistis ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][4102 (pistis) in secular antiquity referred to a guarantee (warranty). In Scripture, faith is God's warranty, certifying that the revelation He inbirthed will come to pass (His way).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Faith (4102/pistis) is also used collectively – of all the times God has revealed (given the persuasion of) His will, which includes the full revelation of Scripture (Jude 3). Indeed, God the Lord guarantees that all of this revelation will come to pass! Compare Mt 5:18 with 2 Tim 3:16.][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]1[SIZE=+1]. The root of 4102/pistis ("faith") is 3982/peithô ("to persuade, be persuaded") which supplies the core-meaning of faith ("divine persuasion"). It is God's warranty that guarantees the fulfillment of the revelation He births within the receptive believer (cf. 1 Jn 5:4 with Heb 11:1).[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Faith (4102/pistis) is always received from God, and never generated by us.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Ro 12:3: "For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith (4102/pistis)" (NASU).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]Eph 2:8,9: " For by grace you have been saved through faith (4102/pistis); and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; [SUP][SIZE=+1]9[/SIZE][/SUP][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]not as a result of works, so that no one may boast" (NASU).[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]

every person has been given the gift of faith and a natural reasoning ability, none have been excluded. The process of salvation begins when we activate our own God given faith in the baptism of repentance....God said to sinners in Isaiah 1-18 that they should come and reason together with HIM.....be blessed Stephen