Originally Posted by DJ2
Okay Grandpa lets see how simple this truly is.
1. Who are the sheep? It seems that is a big part of this debate.
2 What is the voice/message? It seems what message is being heard is rather important.
3 What does it mean to "follow"? What & how we follow is quite a hot topic here.
4. What is the meaning of "I give unto them eternal life"? When does this happen?
5. Does the "neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" include the ability for the sheep to resist the lordship of the shepherd?
6. Does the phrase "My Father, which gave them to me" imply only those who are faithful to the end or to those who were faithful at least once during their life?
Your post is rather typical of many on this thread, pick a verse and insert your assumptions. Never willing to even consider another possibility.
If you begin with the first question that DJ2 asks:
Who are the sheep?
Verse 27 gives the simple answer from the text (John 10)
ta probata ta ema tes phones mou akouousin, kago ginosko auta, kai akolouthousin moi
The sheep of me the voice of me are hearing, and I am knowing them, and they are following me.
(My sheep are hearing my voice, and I am knowing them, and they are following me.)
When verse 27 is fulfilled and is happening, then what verses 28 and 29 say is always true of these sheep. If verse 27 is not happening - that is, a person is not hearing and is not following, then the promises of verses 28 and verse 29 do not apply.
I
t is that simple; exactly as the text says it: How in the world does anyone get "once saved always saved" out of John 10:27-29???????????????