Does I Corinthians 13 teach certain gifts ceased with the closing of the canon?

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Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#81
Jul 18, 2017
24,327
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#81
oldethennew said:
to say that Spiritual gifts have ceased is like saying that Christ's Faith has grown weaker -'absurdity'...
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There is a difference between "some spiritual gifts have ceased" and "spiritual gifts have ceased". The fact that the apostles are no longer on earth means that the gift of apostles has ceased. And Scripture confirms this by speaking of only twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Similarly there are no more genuine prophets, since Revelation brought genuine prophecies to an end, and John warned that no one was to add to the prophecies of his book. Then we have the historical fact that after 100 AD none of the Church Fathers claimed to be either an apostle or a prophet. These are just two major examples.

There are about 20 spiritual gifts, but not all of them are manifested today, Which still leaves a large number as valid and operational. Paul selected three specific gifts for being terminated, and had the Charismatics not revived the gift of tongues quite recently (and modern tongues are not the same of biblical tongues) we would not have any issues with accepting the fact that tongues, prophecies, and knowledge (supernaturally acquired) have ceased.

What should concern Christians is that some teach that modern tongues are evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit. Which means that those who do not speak in tongues automatically become second-class Christians. Speaking of faith, the Bible says that we walk by faith, not by sight, but those wish to see supernatural manifestations deny that. They wish to see in order to believe.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#82
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#82
Nehemiah6 said:
There is a difference between "some spiritual gifts have ceased" and "spiritual gifts have ceased". The fact that the apostles are no longer on earth means that the gift of apostles has ceased. And Scripture confirms this by speaking of only twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Similarly there are no more genuine prophets, since Revelation brought genuine prophecies to an end, and John warned that no one was to add to the prophecies of his book. Then we have the historical fact that after 100 AD none of the Church Fathers claimed to be either an apostle or a prophet. These are just two major examples.

There are about 20 spiritual gifts, but not all of them are manifested today, Which still leaves a large number as valid and operational. Paul selected three specific gifts for being terminated, and had the Charismatics not revived the gift of tongues quite recently (and modern tongues are not the same of biblical tongues) we would not have any issues with accepting the fact that tongues, prophecies, and knowledge (supernaturally acquired) have ceased.

What should concern Christians is that some teach that modern tongues are evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit. Which means that those who do not speak in tongues automatically become second-class Christians. Speaking of faith, the Bible says that we walk by faith, not by sight, but those wish to see supernatural manifestations deny that. They wish to see in order to believe.
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All gifts ceased, all of them.
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#83
May 29, 2013
9,082
1,749
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#83
notuptome said:
1 John 4 does not speak as you claim.

History attests to the vanishing of tongues, prophecy, and knowledge following the completion of Revelation by John on Patmos.
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Prove your assertion. I can show evidence to the contrary. Justin Martyr wrote of prophets in the church. the second century work The Shepherd of Hermas records that prophets would speak prophetically in the church. Irenaeus wrote of brethren who prophesied, had foreknowledge, spoke in tongues, and raised the dead. I have also read that Athanasius prophesied and had a reputation for prophecy (see The Spirit and the Church: Antiquity by Burgess.) Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History quotes previous sources affirming that prophecy was a gift in the church in his discussion of Montanism. Many who affirmed that there was a genuine gift rejected Montanus.
 
J

JohnW34

Banned
#86
Jan 5, 2020
263
60
28
#86
Noose said:
All gifts ceased, all of them.
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I have seen the Holy Spirit expressed through a group of hundreds of people, not out of choice, but His move.
The gifts are to encourage and empower the body of Christ, and have been present throughout its history.

So apart from thousands of testimonies to the contrary, the are no movements of God similar to the gifts.
What is clear is gifts are often desired more than spiritual reality and relationship with purity and holiness,
which leads to the weired visits to heaven visions etc and claims of miracle working gold dust, angel feathers,
jewels, gold teeth and anything that might reassure the faithful God is present.
 
G

garee

Banned
#87
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
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#87
Dino246 said:
Your position is refuted by the events of Acts 10... as I have told you many times.
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We have been through Acts 10 it failed as a example . You still do not get it . The sign is to the unbeliever "no prophecy" the tongue of God. Yet for all that they fall backward.

It does not mean a person has to hear it in order to make it a sign against them.Its sign either way .

Prophecy, God mocking them that refuse prophecy. If no one in the room is a unbeliever it does not take way the purpose of the sign .

Its the witness God is spoken mocking unbelief in mankind.

Read the law in Isaiah and revisited in 1 Corinthians 14 . Signs for those who rebel. . Prophecy for those who have faith in the eternal
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#88
Jun 30, 2015
24,672
13,364
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#88
garee said:
We have been through Acts 10 it failed as a example . You still do not get it . The sign is to the unbeliever "no prophecy" the tongue of God. Yet for all that they fall backward.
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Who fell backward in Acts 10? Nobody.

garee said:
It does not mean a person has to hear it in order to make it a sign against them.Its sign either way .
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That's a silly and indefensible excuse for an explanation.
 
G

garee

Banned
#89
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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#89
Noose said:
1 Cor 13 is not directly about the canon but directly about love. The whole chapter speaks of love and 1 John 4 speaks of being perfected in love.

What Paul was saying in 1 Cor 13 was that the church was not fully established and would only be fully established when they started loving each other.
It was the apostles mandate to establish the church after which they'd pass away and leave an established church. It is true that after the church was established, the canon was also complete but the canon is not the perfect that Paul was talking about, love was.
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It is more about the cannon that records the love of God as knowledge . New prophecy has ceased right alone side of new knowledge

.Prophecy is the knowledge of God. Can't separate the two.

In the interim Paul warns us beforehand , making it impossible for any mam after John and last chapter Revelation. Or someone to say Lo is Christ he is here or there or I had a dream as new prophecy that can be added to the book. Its how we try the spirts to see if they are of men or God .No new prophecy as scripture.

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, "if" it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.Mathew 16:23-26
 
G

garee

Banned
#90
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
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#90
Dino246 said:
Who fell backward in Acts 10? Nobody.


That's a silly and indefensible excuse for an explanation.
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Give your silly explanation. What happened in Acts? No unbelievers were there so the sign was not needed to confirm unbelief this time??
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#91
Jun 30, 2015
24,672
13,364
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#91
garee said:
No unbelievers were there so the sign was not needed to confirm unbelief this time??
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No unbelieving Jews were present, so the gift of tongues was not given to demonstrate God's mockery of them. Rather, it was given to glorify God and confirm to Paul and his companions that God also accepted the gentiles into the kingdom by faith.
 
G

garee

Banned
#92
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
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#92
Dino246 said:
No unbelieving Jews were present, so the gift of tongues was not given to demonstrate God's mockery of them. Rather, it was given to glorify God and confirm to Paul and his companions that God also accepted the gentiles into the kingdom by faith.
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The gift of God prophecy given to all nations was a sign against the unbelieving Jew . Jews used to represent unbelieving corrupted mankind whether the unbeliever was there or not. It remains a sign against unbelief.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#93
Jun 30, 2015
24,672
13,364
113
#93
garee said:
The gift of God prophecy given to all nations was a sign against the unbelieving Jew . Jews used to represent unbelieving corrupted mankind whether the unbeliever was there or not. It remains a sign against unbelief.
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I'm glad you're satisfied with your explanation. It's completely nonsensical to me.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#94
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#94
JohnW34 said:
I have seen the Holy Spirit expressed through a group of hundreds of people, not out of choice, but His move.
The gifts are to encourage and empower the body of Christ, and have been present throughout its history.

So apart from thousands of testimonies to the contrary, the are no movements of God similar to the gifts.
What is clear is gifts are often desired more than spiritual reality and relationship with purity and holiness,
which leads to the weired visits to heaven visions etc and claims of miracle working gold dust, angel feathers,
jewels, gold teeth and anything that might reassure the faithful God is present.
Click to expand...
There was a time i thought i also saw such things and believed, not any more because they are lies meant to misdirect those who believe. Satan also comes with signs and wonders- fake signs and wonder and the lie is so strong.
With God, everything has its own time and the signs were meant to legitimize the apostles, also help them preach the gospel. That time is long gone and it all ceased according to God's plan.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#97
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#97
JohnW34 said:
I have seen the Holy Spirit expressed through a group of hundreds of people, not out of choice, but His move.
The gifts are to encourage and empower the body of Christ, and have been present throughout its history.

So apart from thousands of testimonies to the contrary, the are no movements of God similar to the gifts.
What is clear is gifts are often desired more than spiritual reality and relationship with purity and holiness,
which leads to the weired visits to heaven visions etc and claims of miracle working gold dust, angel feathers,
jewels, gold teeth and anything that might reassure the faithful God is present.
Click to expand...
I actually saw gold form in a back tooth at a meeting.

Was amazing and wonderful.

The Holy Spirit is still moving big time.

He does so inspite of skeptics.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#98
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#98
Noose said:
How? Like did you pray for a dead person to rise or healed and continue to heal the sick?
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17:40 to 26:00
The dead are raised in mexico.

Thank you Jesus!!!!


 
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