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Sure, 50% of marriages end in divorce, even for those claiming to be christian. The key word there is claiming and I think it's obvious that there are tons of people out there who claim to be christian that do not live out their claimed beliefs. I read an interesting article recently that showed statistics for divorce among christians who are actually active in a church body not just "claiming" it's 20%. Still an ugly statistic, but not nearly as bad.
Life is full of risks. If you choose to drive, you run the risk of being involved in an accident. (25% of drivers will be involved in an accident this year) If you choose to walk instead, you still run the risk of being run over by a car. You could just lock yourself in your home to avoid these risks, but over 30,000 people die and over 8,000,000 people are injured in household accidents every year.
There are those risks we choose to take on a daily basis, but we take measures to reduce our risk. When we drive we (should) pay attention to what's going on around us so we can avoid accidents, but it amazes me the number of men who don't pay attention to what's going on in their marriage. We spend countless hours maintaining our cars to keep them operating safely, yet so many men fail to maintain their marriage. It seems to me that if men would put the same effort into their marriage that they put into winning the heart of their wife prior to marriage divorce rates would drop.
Yep, a man pointing the finger at the men. Why? Because every male friend of mine that I've seen end up divorced (with rare exception) refused to do what it took to save their marriage until after they got served with divorce papers.
Unfortunately too many men look at marriage as a goal, not a process. Most men hit the wedding and check marriage off their list of goals and move on to the next goal to be accomplished. Marriage is a process that takes continuous time and effort to keep it in top running shape and if it's neglected it will fall apart.
Life is full of risks. If you choose to drive, you run the risk of being involved in an accident. (25% of drivers will be involved in an accident this year) If you choose to walk instead, you still run the risk of being run over by a car. You could just lock yourself in your home to avoid these risks, but over 30,000 people die and over 8,000,000 people are injured in household accidents every year.
There are those risks we choose to take on a daily basis, but we take measures to reduce our risk. When we drive we (should) pay attention to what's going on around us so we can avoid accidents, but it amazes me the number of men who don't pay attention to what's going on in their marriage. We spend countless hours maintaining our cars to keep them operating safely, yet so many men fail to maintain their marriage. It seems to me that if men would put the same effort into their marriage that they put into winning the heart of their wife prior to marriage divorce rates would drop.
Yep, a man pointing the finger at the men. Why? Because every male friend of mine that I've seen end up divorced (with rare exception) refused to do what it took to save their marriage until after they got served with divorce papers.
Unfortunately too many men look at marriage as a goal, not a process. Most men hit the wedding and check marriage off their list of goals and move on to the next goal to be accomplished. Marriage is a process that takes continuous time and effort to keep it in top running shape and if it's neglected it will fall apart.
I haven't read through the whole thread, so forgive me if this has already been said:
ANYONE, male OR female, who goes into a marriage expecting to "get" anything more than love, is in for a VERY rude wake-up call (and probably divorce court).
There are plenty of things that go along with love, such as protection and devotion, but they are merely evidence of what should already be present: Love.
Husbands shouldn't be viewed as moneybags, and wives aren't housemaids that work for free. Just sayin'
ANYONE, male OR female, who goes into a marriage expecting to "get" anything more than love, is in for a VERY rude wake-up call (and probably divorce court).
There are plenty of things that go along with love, such as protection and devotion, but they are merely evidence of what should already be present: Love.
Husbands shouldn't be viewed as moneybags, and wives aren't housemaids that work for free. Just sayin'
P
dabear,
you remind me of Peter in the garden...
you love Jesus so much you want to protect what is right ... I have spent most of my life doing that... Until.... not only did I see what Peter do in the garden while He struck the war off the guard to protect Jesus .... I began looking more at what Jesus told Him to do....
Peter! Put down your Sword! Those who live by tue sword die by the sword ... He picked up the very ear " Peter struck off" and healed the guard when this really sunk into my heart... I realized .... I too was holding a sword and striking people, just like Peter... took my stubborn will a while to wrap my mind around it all.. But finally I got it... what was happening is I became the very evil I hated... scary when I realized my fighting for good was denying Christ ... he healed the guard Peter struck . Christs love was greater than the guards sin... exactly as the message I posted regarding the man loving His wife and the baby , "greater than" her sin..her husband reflected Christs love out to her... Just as Jesus did with the adulterous woman caught in the act... he drew a line in the sand when the righteous came to stone her.... Said " YOU without sin, cast the first stone "
you remind me of Peter in the garden...
you love Jesus so much you want to protect what is right ... I have spent most of my life doing that... Until.... not only did I see what Peter do in the garden while He struck the war off the guard to protect Jesus .... I began looking more at what Jesus told Him to do.... Peter! Put down your Sword! Those who live by tue sword die by the sword ... He picked up the very ear " Peter struck off" and healed the guard when this really sunk into my heart... I realized .... I too was holding a sword and striking people, just like Peter... took my stubborn will a while to wrap my mind around it all.. But finally I got it... what was happening is I became the very evil I hated... scary when I realized my fighting for good was denying Christ ... he healed the guard Peter struck . Christs love was greater than the guards sin... exactly as the message I posted regarding the man loving His wife and the baby , "greater than" her sin..her husband reflected Christs love out to her... Just as Jesus did with the adulterous woman caught in the act... he drew a line in the sand when the righteous came to stone her.... Said " YOU without sin, cast the first stone "
D
Not at all, but as a gender, do not men take responsibility for the **edited** in the world? Look at oncefallen's response. He blamed men, and in general, he said it was all on a man's shoulder's to fix things. I take this as all men are to blame for the few. This puts it on our own shoulders to fix things that a few might do, as we end up taking care of the single mothers, the divorced women, etc (which is at a record high in the world, might I add). That's our reward, and a lot of times, men take that up and show what real men are capable of, based on a woman's mistakes with some asshole guy. In the end, we take up that burden. It isn't fair, and it isn't right, but we do it anyway. Why are women so against doing this as well? I've not even heard much of a "there are women you should avoid" type of statement either. I've not even heard one single statement about why divorce laws should be changed for the better, or rape laws, or sexual harassment laws, etc. I've not heard a peep about those things, and really, the closest answer to that has been along the lines of "If men don't do the right thing, you will get divorced!" as if that's an okay statement to make. How is that a statement anyone should be making as Christians?
It just leaves me with the idea of when is enough enough, and more-so, why is never an answer for men, but any bit of neglect an answer for women? If we are all equal as far as gender, then why is all responsibility on men at all times? If a woman cheats on her man, the man is told he needs to be like Jesus and to forgive. If a man cheats on his woman, he is divorced, and most will say it is justified. I see a large gap in the process here, if we are to be completely equal with things.
I know some of you think I created this thread based on past hurt, but that really isn't what my intention was. I was just asking a legitimate question, and while the title and things might have been misleading, the idea remains the same: Women seem to be the ones initiating almost all divorce cases (there are always the exceptions, but I'm looking at the general norm), and men keep getting blamed as if everything lie on their shoulders. I've gone into every relationship I've had based on that idea, that it is all on my shoulders, it is my burden to bear as a man. Every relationship ended with me hanging on too long to a bad situation, trying to fix things on my own, and the women all seem to believe it was all up to me as well. The responsibility and blame game has generally always been on the man's shoulders, but I'm asking why is that? If we can't take blame equally on both sides, how will any relationship work out? No man can take the burden being placed on his shoulders forever. Every cracks eventually without support. If I even put a slight bit of blame on women, I get called a bunch of things, none of which are pleasant. Am I touching home here a bit too close to someone's heart, or what is it? Why is it that nobody wants to take blame for anything? Generally speaking, I brought up feminism as a case point, because you don't see very many masculine right movements. The sexual revolution changed a lot of things, some of them good, but clearly some of them were bad. I think it takes both genders to realize the problems, but if one side is always blamed, and the other acts blameless because they personally might not see themselves as offenders, how is anything fixed for the overall good?
Let me put it this way: If every black person in the 60's were all for themselves, blaming everyone else and not standing together on racial awareness, how would Martin Luther King ever have succeeded? We put that idea on his shoulders, as if he did everything, but he was just one of very many. If everyone acted individually, nothing would've occurred, and if everyone said "this never happened to me!" or "I've never done this, don't blame me!" than nobody would've fixed things. The same goes for feminism of any era, because if just one woman said all these things, and the vast majority of women didn't join in, nothing would've happened. Women from all over joined in on the cause, and clearly women from all over didn't enjoy being regulated to housewives, and the few that did enjoy it still supported the cause of other women who didn't.
For all the happy marriages out there, there is a 50% rate of unhappily married couples, and that is the highest it has ever been. What are the reasons? If it is ONLY based on who is following Jesus, than you'd think you'd see much higher than 50%. Beyond that, you'd think it would've ALWAYS been high, because people haven't been following Jesus throughout history. That doesn't seem to have affected marriage much, so I think that idea is farfetched, and even if it is definitely a point, it isn't the entire reason. Clearly something else changed marriage, and clearly something else is the reason marriages aren't working. If it was only Christianity, than nobody outside of Christianity would ever stay married. That isn't the case either.
It just leaves me with the idea of when is enough enough, and more-so, why is never an answer for men, but any bit of neglect an answer for women? If we are all equal as far as gender, then why is all responsibility on men at all times? If a woman cheats on her man, the man is told he needs to be like Jesus and to forgive. If a man cheats on his woman, he is divorced, and most will say it is justified. I see a large gap in the process here, if we are to be completely equal with things.
I know some of you think I created this thread based on past hurt, but that really isn't what my intention was. I was just asking a legitimate question, and while the title and things might have been misleading, the idea remains the same: Women seem to be the ones initiating almost all divorce cases (there are always the exceptions, but I'm looking at the general norm), and men keep getting blamed as if everything lie on their shoulders. I've gone into every relationship I've had based on that idea, that it is all on my shoulders, it is my burden to bear as a man. Every relationship ended with me hanging on too long to a bad situation, trying to fix things on my own, and the women all seem to believe it was all up to me as well. The responsibility and blame game has generally always been on the man's shoulders, but I'm asking why is that? If we can't take blame equally on both sides, how will any relationship work out? No man can take the burden being placed on his shoulders forever. Every cracks eventually without support. If I even put a slight bit of blame on women, I get called a bunch of things, none of which are pleasant. Am I touching home here a bit too close to someone's heart, or what is it? Why is it that nobody wants to take blame for anything? Generally speaking, I brought up feminism as a case point, because you don't see very many masculine right movements. The sexual revolution changed a lot of things, some of them good, but clearly some of them were bad. I think it takes both genders to realize the problems, but if one side is always blamed, and the other acts blameless because they personally might not see themselves as offenders, how is anything fixed for the overall good?
Let me put it this way: If every black person in the 60's were all for themselves, blaming everyone else and not standing together on racial awareness, how would Martin Luther King ever have succeeded? We put that idea on his shoulders, as if he did everything, but he was just one of very many. If everyone acted individually, nothing would've occurred, and if everyone said "this never happened to me!" or "I've never done this, don't blame me!" than nobody would've fixed things. The same goes for feminism of any era, because if just one woman said all these things, and the vast majority of women didn't join in, nothing would've happened. Women from all over joined in on the cause, and clearly women from all over didn't enjoy being regulated to housewives, and the few that did enjoy it still supported the cause of other women who didn't.
For all the happy marriages out there, there is a 50% rate of unhappily married couples, and that is the highest it has ever been. What are the reasons? If it is ONLY based on who is following Jesus, than you'd think you'd see much higher than 50%. Beyond that, you'd think it would've ALWAYS been high, because people haven't been following Jesus throughout history. That doesn't seem to have affected marriage much, so I think that idea is farfetched, and even if it is definitely a point, it isn't the entire reason. Clearly something else changed marriage, and clearly something else is the reason marriages aren't working. If it was only Christianity, than nobody outside of Christianity would ever stay married. That isn't the case either.
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D
Oh, and I'll say one more thing, for those of you who think I'm just some hurt male who hates women (lol?): I truly believe it usually takes many heartbreaks for any person to grow and to even have a simple grasp on how to nurture a healthy relationship. I view all experienced people as just those who have made the most mistakes, and thus have had the best selection of chances to learn from them. Not everyone gets things right on the first try, with anything in life, and I believe that also accounts for relationships. I don't know all of you, but I'm willing to bet that 99% of you who are married did NOT marry your first love, your high school sweetheart, etc, and if you did, you are probably one of the statistics in the divorce column. There are always exceptions, but I don't think you learn much from the ones that succeeded the first time. You learn the most from those that have failed over and over again and eventually found the answer. I'm in the latter category, still searching for that answer, and I've dated enough women to either know them well enough, or at least to know what I view is acceptable and not acceptable in a relationship. Maybe those of you who have married young and succeeded will view things differently, but I stand by what my experiences in life have taught me. I clearly don't hate women at all, or I wouldn't even consider getting married or even bringing up a topic like this, one that I knew would get me blasted by a few people. I'm glad not all of you were like that, but it is what it is. I have thick skin . I still haven't found much of an answer though, because just praying about it and being close to Jesus isn't the answer for marriage, at least not the only answer. If you are THAT close to God, most likely you won't get married anyway.
. I still haven't found much of an answer though, because just praying about it and being close to Jesus isn't the answer for marriage, at least not the only answer. If you are THAT close to God, most likely you won't get married anyway.
N
Ideal Advantages:
A closeness with someone which cannot be obtained any other way.
Children formed from a love which is so overwhelming, it had to be reproduced.
Opinions from a person who quite naturally will think from a different and refreshing perspective.
The incomparable joy of working in unison with your wife.
A respect you will get no where else.
Compassion which melts your heart.
The joy of having someone to give your love to through works, which expands to the rest of the world because you can't just keep it to yourselves.
Peace in knowing you are working toward the same Christian goals together and will strengthen each other in your journey.
This is all I have for now. I'm sure there is more. You don't know unless you try. You only have a chance to make it. If you do, any obstacle is worth the price.
A closeness with someone which cannot be obtained any other way.
Children formed from a love which is so overwhelming, it had to be reproduced.
Opinions from a person who quite naturally will think from a different and refreshing perspective.
The incomparable joy of working in unison with your wife.
A respect you will get no where else.
Compassion which melts your heart.
The joy of having someone to give your love to through works, which expands to the rest of the world because you can't just keep it to yourselves.
Peace in knowing you are working toward the same Christian goals together and will strengthen each other in your journey.
This is all I have for now. I'm sure there is more. You don't know unless you try. You only have a chance to make it. If you do, any obstacle is worth the price.
H
Womens rights changed a lot of things - women now had the social power to divorce without being labeled or scolded or shunned by peers and superiors (at that time males). like all good things, we've taken it too far and abused a good thing. there arre women out there who are just rotten to the core with pretty outsides, and men of the same, and most of them very manipulative and will do what they want/need. including play with ppls hearts. unfortunately young ppl are stupid. we make stupid choices and decisions. we go after the "bad guy" or "eye candy" and realize too late that it was a game to them or they r abusive (this goes for guys and girls) . by the time we wise up and grow out of some of our stupidity, and look for the nice ppl, they have been so scarred that they are insecure, think its a joke, are afraid, or a million other things from probably being taken advantage of bc of their nice-ness. now, i have never been married (almost but thank God I didnt - 20/20hindsight) - >>continued n next msg<
H
Never been married<< but I would think that the advantages would be a new level of closeness, trust. working together, knowing you have made a covenant with God to try your best and reflect the love he has given you to one another, and be there for eachother. to have the safety of that bond and not just dump out/break up, but try try try to work things through even if it takes years. to have a love so distict, and deep that you allow sexual intimacy, and probably more tings that i cant think of atm bc my son is crying xDD But that is what I PERSONALLY see as some of the advantages
H
Oh yeah, and as far as any marriage I would ever expect to have - I would expect more responsibility to come with marriage. to realize my faults and misgivings so that i wudnt upset my husband. if there is a problem to sit down and figure out at the root what the hell is wrong and how t fix it not just fix the symptoms, and examine myself to see what my part is. i wud expect him to do the same. in a general relationship i might not expect as much of that bc many ppl now days are not serious abt relationships, and they peel out the moment u bring up anything about digging deep to figure what problems may lie at the core. (kinda sorta off topic but yeah....greater expectations for problem solving n a marriage for me)
J
If you have time, I would encourage you to read some of my threads and you will clearly see that there are women who DO accept responsibility, who are not fans of feminism (and who take quite a beating for this stance) and who HAVE spoken out about some of the issues you raise. You'll even find one regarding "the woman your momma never warned you about". I've admitted some of my own failings in these forums 3-4 times this week alone.
I'm in court pretty much every day now, and in recent years I have actually seen judges hold women more accountable, particularly with regard to child support issues. Advances in forensics and greater professionalism in law enforcement (attempts to rid us of the good ole boys system of LE) have also led to more efficient trying of rape cases. What specific changes would you like to see and what are you doing to bring them about?
At the beginning of one paragraph you say that your opinions are not the result of personal bitterness, but a few sentences later, there is some contradiction. I'm not judging that. We all have our wounds. And we all have our questions. Having said that, generalities are generally counterproductive, are they not?
Unfortunately, for all concerned, divorce is more socially acceptable. Divorce is easier than it once was, as most states are no fault, which actually tends to tip the scales in the favor of men in several ways as far as I've seen in court, particularly men of means. There is far less accountability for ALL parties regarding reasons for divorce. We live in an "I deserve to be happy" society. We live in a society that believes in instant gratification. These are all contributing factors and I'm sure there are more, but I still believe it's mostly because marriage is not seen by most people as the holy thing of God it is...and putting HIM first and self last.
I know I didn't address everything, but I was exhausted when I started typing this and am even moreso now.
I'm in court pretty much every day now, and in recent years I have actually seen judges hold women more accountable, particularly with regard to child support issues. Advances in forensics and greater professionalism in law enforcement (attempts to rid us of the good ole boys system of LE) have also led to more efficient trying of rape cases. What specific changes would you like to see and what are you doing to bring them about?
At the beginning of one paragraph you say that your opinions are not the result of personal bitterness, but a few sentences later, there is some contradiction. I'm not judging that. We all have our wounds. And we all have our questions. Having said that, generalities are generally counterproductive, are they not?
Unfortunately, for all concerned, divorce is more socially acceptable. Divorce is easier than it once was, as most states are no fault, which actually tends to tip the scales in the favor of men in several ways as far as I've seen in court, particularly men of means. There is far less accountability for ALL parties regarding reasons for divorce. We live in an "I deserve to be happy" society. We live in a society that believes in instant gratification. These are all contributing factors and I'm sure there are more, but I still believe it's mostly because marriage is not seen by most people as the holy thing of God it is...and putting HIM first and self last.
I know I didn't address everything, but I was exhausted when I started typing this and am even moreso now.
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T
I learned over the years we can only control ourselves we can not control another person. I do not believe in stereo typing because its far from any truth. We each have a huge power in the gift of choice. Today we can go one way tomorrow the other it voids stereos. If we go into a relationship and do what we are suppose to do we can do no wrong. If your wife girlfriend doesn't do what their suppose to do its their fault. Even though this jumps a lot of emotional attachment stuff. The one that does right should be proud and not hang their head because of the others ignorance. God sees these things and will not go unnoticed. If you are having a fear recognise where that fear comes from. From our mouths we speak life and death, blessings and curses. The comes from everyone around you. I think it is like the angel and the devil sitting on our shoulders speaking to us. In the beginning GOD made man and saw that he shouldn't/couldn't be alone, so he made woman.(<-not quoted word for word) We can not run a marriage/relationship by ourselves, but with GOD all things are possible. We can not stop or fix the divorce rate or the evil we do in the world. These things have to come to pass because its biblical. We are going to have a total melt moral down here on earth. The world is gonna keep getting worse till our Lord comes back. GOD gives us peace and comfort in the middle of a war.In conclusion, we have to take the plank out of our eye and then we can see. Great post brother