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ok sir..you are not reading things right..like i said before..where, oh where did you see me condemning you? Did i say, thou art condemned? Nope..i did not..
So, how can you see if i am blind or seeing..or whatever it is you 'think' that you see? I am saying this in the most non combative manner i can, because i think you, and someone else here sadly think people are out to get them. I am not, i do not know you, i never will on this earth most likely. It is a forum, so i am typing it piece by piece. Read what i said, not what i did not..just like you said i called you a calvnist when i clearly did not..I think you and I are in more agreement than you think, or would want to admit. I believe in resting, but not just resting..believing because God said it, I can..with 'his help' and 'his leading' and 'his enabling me' do these things..Did Father Abraham..Moses, King David and all other great men of faith just rest in him or did they not also step out 'in faith' because faith without works is dead, like it says so in James..Did they not also take the step..so as to say, Ok God, I believe you..so here, I am stepping out..in Faith..I am working with you God..not myself..Not just you, with you..alongside.
How is that works..and how is that wrong? Please answer the question if you can so kindly sir. thank you..
So, how can you see if i am blind or seeing..or whatever it is you 'think' that you see? I am saying this in the most non combative manner i can, because i think you, and someone else here sadly think people are out to get them. I am not, i do not know you, i never will on this earth most likely. It is a forum, so i am typing it piece by piece. Read what i said, not what i did not..just like you said i called you a calvnist when i clearly did not..I think you and I are in more agreement than you think, or would want to admit. I believe in resting, but not just resting..believing because God said it, I can..with 'his help' and 'his leading' and 'his enabling me' do these things..Did Father Abraham..Moses, King David and all other great men of faith just rest in him or did they not also step out 'in faith' because faith without works is dead, like it says so in James..Did they not also take the step..so as to say, Ok God, I believe you..so here, I am stepping out..in Faith..I am working with you God..not myself..Not just you, with you..alongside.
How is that works..and how is that wrong? Please answer the question if you can so kindly sir. thank you..
Abraham was told by God, Leave your family, your land and your home, and go to a place I have prepared for you.
now what scenario's do we have?
Abraham did not believe, He would have showed this by not leaving.
He believed but was not assured. He may have left, he may not have left.
He was fully assured, HAD FAITH. He would have not only left. but he would have done alot of what God said. Which is what we see.
And remember, His faith was not perfect. He lacked faith in God completely. we know because he committed adultery with his maid. because he lost faith in God.
However, this is what we do know. God still kept his promise, even in spite of Abraham's lack of faith, and grave sin which he committed.
Now we go to James. James makes it clear. If one states he has faith. But has zero works, can this faith save him? Then he makes the statement which has been misinterpreted by so many people through the ages. Faith without works is dead.
Back to abraham. Was Abraham perfect? No! He committed a grave sin, He even lied about who his wife was because of lack of faith that God could protect him from a king. But when we look at his life. He did do many things which showed his faith was real. Using James statement as a guide. If Abraham did not even take the first step, In other words. he would have had no works, proving his faith was dead.
Thus comes the statement of what James was saying. Can a man be saved if they have NO FAITH? of course, I am sure if we look openly, we would have to agree, the answer would be no. So how would this prove OSAS is wrong? Abraham was not perfect. He committed grave sins, Yet God still saved him, According to paul, not because he did work, but because he believed in God..
I do not know how more clear it can get. James is not saying one must work or they will lose salvation. He is speaking of licenteous people who may have had a mere belief in God and his promises, but had not faith in what God said about them (they are sinners) about their state because of that sin (they are condemned) and about what one must do to be saved (not just mere belief but faith or a full assurance.) and how can we know> They did nto show the changed life which WOULD OCCUR in one who had been made a new creation in God (eph 2:10) based on their faith in Christ (eph 2: 8-9)
We trust him..because we exercise our faith..daily..reading..praying..learning in this walk..it is an active walk. You do not learn by sitting on blessed assurance, clearly that is what you saying, or seem to be saying..that we learn by learning to trust, we grow..in faith..step by step day by day..I agree with this too!
You want to reject the first part of rest. so how can you say you can even possibly enter his rest? Learn what it is before you start condemning people!
Reject what? I am not rejecting anything..You are not hearing me say i rejected anything. I simply said i trust God to enable me to live a right live..that is not meaning i am not a work in progress. But simply having a good church..good theology, feelings of assurance..etc that can only get me so far. I need my own walk, and my own walk with God, this relationship with God..is an active thing in my life. Are you in favor of this form of action? I am sure you are..because most in the OSAS camp can at least believe in having a walk with God, building their relationship with God. Once again, I am your fellow believer here, i am not your enemy..I never ever ever condemned you. You will not find such a post that i said you are going to hell..i simply said you, I and the rest of us had better be sure that we have fruit in our lives..not just theology/assurance..'faith' which without works is not really more than a belief. The demons believe too! ha! so what?
And remember, this line of discussion happened because of what Greeny said to me. So if you do not believe as they do, forgive me for making accusations, I guess you could say I assumed you believed as they did, because this discussion started with what they said. I can also say, I agree with what you said in this last statement
I have to get to church, I will respond to the rest of this later this afternoon (I also have a deacons meeting after church) so please do not think I am ignoring you if you do not see the rest right away. I am glad we are having this talk though. Maybe we can finally see what the other believes. Which is not normal in these chat rooms. I have cut the rest out, and will past in a new response, so will not see if you have responded to this before I answer the rest.