Israel or Palestine?

eternally-gratefull · Apr 4, 2013

Yes,, they should have seen Christ was their suffering servant, who saved them from their sin, and the law and all the works of the law could not save them.

They still do not believe this, they are still trying to follow the old.. thinking God will honor it..when it can;t because the law does not take care of their sin issue

loveme1 · Apr 4, 2013

EG, Those that did accept Yahshua the Messiah at His first coming were they Jacobs children?

eternally-gratefull · Apr 4, 2013

loveme1 said:

the remnant yes. Paul was of the tribe of benjamin. But God promised he would always keep a remnant did he not?

loveme1 · Apr 4, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

It is written that 7000 were reserved who did not bow to baal.

eternally-gratefull · Apr 4, 2013

loveme1 said:

Yes, that was in Elijah's time, he thought he was alone. But God always kept a remnant.

now one must ask themselves a few questions.

1. Did God promise any other nation that he would keep a remnant. and never let them die
2. If he did not.. why did he just say this about one nation (Jacob or natural isreal)
3. Is this promise still valid today? if yes,, why is God still calling them a "remnant"

PeteWaldo · Apr 4, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

Surely you realize that by admitting to this, you are crediting Muhammad with divinely inspired prophesy. But since we both know that Muhammad was as opposite of Jesus Christ, as the Quran is opposed to the Gospel, what any similarity SHOULD inspire in a Christian is a long hard look at their notion of A SINGLE "The" "Antichrist". Whether they believe he was Nero and he was all over and done with in the 1st century, or whether they believe it is an individual boogieman of some future someday, of the Left Behind series of the silver screen.

It is patently obvious to me - through the traditional historicist approach to prophecy - that Satan himself inspired such false doctrine, to take the attention away from himself, as well as 1.5 billion antichrists that follow him that he requires to deny the Son of God as an article of their faith in the false prophet Muhammad, and shift the world's attention to a time of 2,000 years ago, or some future someday - whether Christian or Muslim. Meanwhile, 1/4 of mankind in the world today is required to DISbelieve in Jesus' crucifixion and the whole purpose of the Messia, as an article of faith in THE false prophet Muhammad alone.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...onal-approach-historicism-bible-prophecy.html

eternally-gratefull · Apr 4, 2013

PeteWaldo said:

Nah, Just showing how true prophesy is twisted to fit ones own belief, which happens all the time.

PeteWaldo · Apr 4, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

Great! So then we agree that antichrist is about "the spirit of antichrist", and not at all about an individual boogieman.
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.[/FONT]

eternally-gratefull · Apr 4, 2013

PeteWaldo said:

no.. the spirit of antichrist is alive today and has been for 2000 years. But OT prophesy and NT speaks of a world leader who will take control of the whole earth. and speak blasphemies against the most high..Call him the antichrist or what you will, but he is a real person.

zone · Apr 4, 2013

zone said:

i might as well finish this thought so there's no confusion about what i'm actually saying.

the fear and loathing instilled in the jewish-psyche comes from a form of 'familial' abuse - from within.

the teaching of chosen-ness does translate into a superiority complex (however innocently the idea is adopted by little kids its taught to). that complex is met by the irreconcilable teaching that for some inexplicabale reason everybody just hates jews - no reason other than...what...they are chosen? gentiles are completely incapable of accepting jews? whatever it manifests as.

so two things are taught: we are chosen, and we are hated.

this sets up an automatic system of loyalty and dysfunction, which is actually cultivated by the Rabbinic system, and is taken advantage of by criminal cults and gangs within the jewish community....we stick together right or wrong, and in actuality we are never wrong.

there is something about the collective mindset that generally, and i say broadly...which suppresses and inhibits slef-examination and reflection on why things are the way they are.

its explained to the people in the simplest yet most tragically mentally disabling terms: we are chosen and we are hated < no resolution ever to this problem - this leads to terrible mental illnesses for the people, since this is an impossible position to be in - perpetual cognitive dissonance.

its that simple. so for the purposes of the continuation and survival of the very idea of chosen-ness and separation antisemitism is encouraged and exaggerated by the leaders who have to maintain control over the minds of the group.

many communities do this...it's cultish.

on top of that, the rabbis have to continue to try to explain WHERE IS GOD?

.......

concerning persecution of jews, the ratio of genuine psychopathic non-empathic haters of jews is no greater than for any other group. haters are going to hate.

the difference is this....corruption and sin is great inside the Pharisaical community - Paul explained why, and we ought to know. trying to live under Law enhances sin - because we are sinful! but because there has to be a facade of religious purity, cover-ups are normal.

denial is standard.

and finally, when we look at Talmud, we see all these things right in there.

so the fear, loathing, and the guilt and worst of all - the projecting onto others what is actually and taught and felt from inside is a set-up for continual disaster. this can never lead to any peace because there is no peace in a mind enslaved to a system like this.

anyone can see this, and it's clearly admitted by honest people.

end.

tribesman · Apr 4, 2013

Norman Finkelstein is right.

PeteWaldo · Apr 4, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

So then what you are really saying is that you believe the prophecy, that is twisted to fit ones own belief, of your personal choosing. That perhaps folks in Peoria Illinois will receive a microchip in their hand?
What happens when we turn to Strong's and consider a more scholarly and scriptural ethnographic hermeneutic, when considering what John's "whole world" is, and then just who has taken control of it:
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-historicism-bible-prophecy-2.html#post980172

eternally-gratefull · Apr 4, 2013

PeteWaldo said:

lol.. Micro chips? what does that have to do with the discussion?

And why turn to strongs? there are many far better lexicons out there. I have a bunch of them, what would you like to know?

tribesman · Apr 4, 2013

loveme1 said:

He's a man of God. I had the honor to meet him in person whilst in UK in the late 90s. Unforgettable services there at MMFPC.

zone · Apr 4, 2013

RachelBibleStudent said:

okay.....i dont want to get too involved in a study of revelation at the moment.
that section covers the escape to egypt; the slaughter of the innocents; the broader church at the time; and the next portion of the vision restarts and tells the same story, from further out....applying it to the ever growing church.

the judaizing i don't know about - possibly the actual persecution of the newly converted christians by the jews. paul speaks clearly of it.

in any case, it's all fulfilled as written...- 70Ad surely is in there as well, but not in that passage.

we take the same principles for ourselves concerning faithfulness to the Lord, His faithfulness to us,our victory in Him, and what we can expect in this world.

i do like your ideas and will think about them...

thanks for covering it rachel.

it's good

cool

zone · Apr 4, 2013

RachelBibleStudent said:

so, they were blackmailing the United States, who no longer had protection from piracy.
the US complied, agreed to pay the extortion racket....what's so unusual about this?
crime is crime no matter who commits it.

we all know all nations and races have practiced the barbarism of slavery. what i dont like is when some deny they ever did such a thing or ever would

what is more interesting to me though, about the Tripoli thing was the subversion by Joel Barlow and Henry Tazewell.
ive got a copy of that thing and all surrounding legal docs and communiques in my files - its just brutal to slog through since its a continuous text with no paragraph breaks - ugh.

fascinating though....lots more to it than dealings with muslim pirates or friendship deals.
then again, theres always more than meets the eye.
never let a good crisis go to waste - set legal precedents, sleepers.

Stephen63 · Apr 4, 2013

zone said:

*cough*
k....dealt with him but will again.
fraud.

*cough*

and we want to listen to hater Debbie Schlussel why exactly....see.....
when people lie....some of us are just forced to confront it.

and i get really really sick of this game.

so......lets see who your other source is (another Old Testament Wineskin Jew Preserved unto salvation in Blindness and hatred for Jesus of Nazareth i guess....working to take hold of the everlasting covenant - LAND -ya i guess....saved and chosen):

Debbie Schlussel Gloats Over Norway Killing...The True Face Of Zionism

Ultra-right-wing, Jewish-Zionist blogger, Debbie Schlussel has shown the ugliest side of American neo-Conservatism by saying the terrorist shooting spree at a Norwegian Labour Party youth camp was “karma” for the group’s political opposition to Israeli treatment of Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.

Debbie Schlussel

Noting that a pro-Palestine rally was held at the camp the day before the shooting, Schlussel wrote on July 28 that “these hateful, privileged brats at the camp boycotted Jews and sided with Jew-killers. What goes around comes around. *

You support terrorists against innocent civilians in Israel, then you get attacked by terrorists who are upset with your support.”

Norway has announced it will support a move by the Palestinian Authority at the United Nations to be recognized as an official state, should the matter come up for a vote this September.

“For me, this is like Alien v. Predator,” Schlussel continued. “I’m not sad for either side. And I make no apologies for it.”

While claiming she does not “condone massacres on innocent civilians,” Schlussel wrote, “Now these kids’ families know what it feels like to be victims of the Islamic terrorists whose Judenrein boycotts and terrorist flotillas against Israel they support.

We don’t live in a vacuum. I can’t feel sorry for those who support my would-be assassins. And I don’t get too upset when they face the karma that is their fate.”

Her condoning of the “karmic fate” of the more than 70 massacered reflect the motives given by self-confessed killer, Anders Behring Breivik, who targeted the left-wing youth for their political party’s open-immigration and pro-Muslim policies.
A Christian Zionist, Breivik saw Israel as an ally against his own Crusade against “jihadism.”

Schlussel’s comments were roundly condemned by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), who noted that Schlussel essential said that “while she dislikes the wanton murder of unarmed children, the outcome of wanton murder can be considered righteous.”

The SPLC also notes that after Al Queda founder Osama bin Laden was killed in May, Schlussel called for the genocide of 1.8 billion Muslims, and an epileptic case of Schadenfreude when CBS correspondent Lara Logan was sexually assaulted in Cairo last February.

Source :http://www.therightperspective.org/2011/08/01/debbie-schlussel-gloats-over-norway-killing/ - click

a-a-a-a-anyways......continuing on.....eh.
somebody has to i guess.

So, you found a nut in a group. I found a nut in this group.......what's your point? Judge them all by the actions of one?
I don't judge everybody here because of what you say......

zone · Apr 4, 2013

PeteWaldo said:

oh good catch Pete

you...can...not...be...serious.

*sigh* ya dont know who paulie and benny are...course not. ya dont know who tells them what to do.

and thars them buzzwords again

: - note - when you hear these buzzwords, you know who you are talking to and what they are trying to hide:

replacement theology
supersessionsism

(translation: antisemitic amillennial antinomianism)

just to annoy the christian-zionists, heres WIKI:

Supersessionism, fulfillment theology, and replacement theology are terms for the biblical interpretation that the New Covenant supersedes or replaces the Mosaic Covenant,[1][2] the latter thus also referred to as the Old Covenant. The terms do not appear in the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, however, the view they cover is considered part of most traditional Christian views of the Old Covenant, viewing the Christian Church as the inheritor of the promises made with the children of Israel.[3][4] This view contrasts with the minority views of dual-covenant theology on the one side and abrogation of Old Covenant laws on the other.

........

what Pete is sayin is that he is a Dual Covenanter, and that Jesus did not bring in a Better Covenant.
that faithful israel didnt remain in the Tree with gentiles grafted in and unfaithful cut off. nope he doesnt believe that.
he doesnt believe there is ONE people of God and they all are in Christ - Jesus THE CHRIST of Nazareth.

this is zionist newspeak.

oh lookie:

This view contrasts with the minority views of dual-covenant theology on the one side and abrogation of Old Covenant laws on the other.

Dual-covenant theology is a Christian view of the Old Covenant which holds that Jews may simply keep the Law of Moses, because of the "everlasting covenant" (Genesis 17:13) between Abraham and God expressed in the Hebrew Bible, whereas Gentiles (those not Jews or Jewish proselytes) must convert to Christianity or alternatively accept the Seven Laws of Noah to be assured of a place in the World to Come.

Many forms of Christianity, especially Conservative Protestants, consider this view to be heresy. Alternative Christian views are that the Law of Moses has been superseded or abrogated. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 1967, "The Law of the Gospel "fulfills," refines, surpasses, and leads the Old Law to its perfection."

..........

how come you dont know the scriptures Pete.

are you a Millennialist, Pete.

could someone ask him because he says he has to `turn away`from my questioning (this is because he doesnt have the answers)

PETE ARE YOU A MILLENNIALIST - WILL THERE BE A FUTURE 1,000 YEAR KINGDOM

please respond to POST number 8 in this thread.

zone · Apr 4, 2013

Stephen63 said:

now now stephen

holding a grudge only hurts you. not me.

i really dont want to get into pentecostalism again so please avoid these little jabs.
unless you want me to focus on pentecostalism again.

hmm...a truckload of nuts.
mm...might do it again if i feel like it.
over on your thread where its appropriate.

now about the zionist fanatic Pete referenced as a primary source for good info on why christians ought to get involved in mass murder and oppression. what was it you were saying...about that.

the subject itself.

anything...or are you just slathering to find something to hassle me about - thats silly because it turns out badly for you.

zone · Apr 4, 2013

zone said:

oh look

: speaking of Joel Barlow and Henry Tazewell......

IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA CIRCUIT

"We believe Sharia law is not religious theology per se in the sense of the first amendment, both as a historical fact and in light of In Re Ross excoriation and vilifying of Sharia law practices and precepts as inherently uncivilized as recognized in treaties of the US back to the Treaty of Tripoli recognizing America is not a Christian, but a Noahide nation."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/44573381/...ul-Arab-Combatants-in-Jewish-Palestine-Israel < click

if anybody wants to full texts and all the intrigue, lemme know.
you can spend 3 weeks slogging through it like it did.

LOL!

America, you are not Christian, but a Noahide Nation!!!! < SURPRISE - ROTFLMHO!

Dual-covenant theology is a Christian view of the Old Covenant which holds that Jews may simply keep the Law of Moses, because of the "everlasting covenant" (Genesis 17:13) between Abraham and God expressed in the Hebrew Bible, whereas Gentiles (those not Jews or Jewish proselytes) must convert to Christianity or alternatively accept the Seven Laws of Noah to be assured of a place in the World to Come.
wiki

....................

and more wiki (hint - know your footnotes ppl):

In Judaism, the Seven Laws of Noah (Hebrew: שבע מצוות בני נח‎ Sheva mitzvot B'nei Noach) form the major part of the Noachide Laws, or Noahide Code.[1] This code is a set of moral imperatives that, according to the Talmud, were given by God[2] as a binding set of laws for the "children of Noah" – that is, all of humankind.[3][4]

According to religious Judaism, any non-Jew who adheres to these laws is regarded as a righteous gentile, and is assured of a place in the World to Come (Olam Haba), the final reward of the righteous.[5][6] Adherents are often called "B'nei Noach" (Children of Noah) or "Noahides" and may often network in Jewish synagogues.[citation needed]
The seven laws listed by the Tosefta and the Talmud are[7]

Prohibition of Idolatry
Prohibition of Murder
Prohibition of Theft
Prohibition of Sexual immorality
Prohibition of Blasphemy
Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive
Establishment of courts of law

Noachide Laws comprise the six laws which were given to Adam in the Garden of Eden, according to the Talmud's interpretation of Gen 2:16,[8] and a seventh one, which was added after the Flood of Noah. According to rabbinic Judaism, the 613 mitzvot or "commandments" given in the written Torah, as well as their reasonings in the oral Torah, were issued to the Jews only, and are therefore binding only upon them, having inherited the obligation from their ancestors.

While some Jewish organizations, such as Chabad have worked to promote the observance of the Noachide laws, there are no figures for how many actually do.

Noahide laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click

OH YA....SHARIA LAW IS THE BIG THREAT...uh huh.

no, while men slept (freaking out about the PUPPET SHOW ISLAM), the enemy sowed some nasty seeds...right into the heart of Christian America's "Judicial" System.

*cough*

we can do this from Talmud, or from Vatican II, the UN, or from UNESCO, or from anywhere you like -Pete/Ellis/Dolous or whoever....

hey...we can do it right here with the Dual Covenaters!

Israel or Palestine?

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