DECEMBER 25?

[JGIG]

my friends,
if we make up our own holy days, or borrow them from pagans, we are doing what God told us not to do. Aaron was one of the first to try this. He pulled a bull out of the fire and called it YHVH. So, for the next several centuries, they had to put literal bulls back in the fire.

I don't mean this as an attack on any person, but on the institution of Dec25th.

We can accuse Judaizers of promoting rituals that are not in the Scriptures, but what about when we do the same thing?

Until you start observing the Feasts of YHWH as commanded by God in the Scriptures, you ARE making up your own holy days.

You are not obeying the Law as it was given - it is a farce to pretend you are - you are observing a law of your own creation.

And to take the focus off of your error, you attack those who are celebrating the birth of Christ with pureness of heart and motive - at a time of year when the Good News of Christ goes out as at no other time of the year.

-JGIG

 

[disciplemike]

good morning JGIG!
glad to have you here to make your input known.

 

[JGIG]

First, we do not borrow holy days of pagans, we are talking about DATE only. The content is absolutelly different.

Second, we are not living under the OT, but are free to observe or not to observe whatever day we want, as NT says. And again, no Christian is observing "saturnalia", but only, by tradition, the same DATE, but with different MEANING.

Here's the thing:

Saturnalia was an ancient Roman festival in honour of the deity Saturn, held on 17 December of the Julian calendar and later expanded with festivities through to 23 December. The holiday was celebrated with a sacrifice at the Temple of Saturn, in the Roman Forum, and a public banquet, followed by private gift-giving, continual partying, and a carnivalatmosphere that overturned Roman social norms: gambling was permitted, and masters provided table service for theirslaves.[1] The poet Catullus called it "the best of days".[2] (source)​

Those who claim that Christmas, traditionally celebrated on December 25 (or Jan. 6 for our Eastern Orthodox brethren), is the date that Saturnalia was celebrated can't even get their dates right!

-JGIG

 

[CeileDe]

No one is making Christmas Holy, only God can do this. We are celebrating the birth of our Lord and Savior. Do we add a little color and decoration to it? Yes some of us do. If we want to get really down to it maybe we should stop eating food that pagans ate? I'm sure I'll get burned at the stake here but I also observe the Winter Solstice around this time. Does this make me a pagan? I don't believe so, I just thank God for everything He has created.

I believe it is the mindset of how we go about doing things that matters. If someone is just about Santa Claus and gifts during Christmas then I believe they are missing the mark greatly. My family has communion during Christmas and read Scripture. Christmas for us is all about Jesus and yes we add some gifts to the occasion as well (i think we can all agree gifts are fun to get).

Now lets see about Halloween. I use to be against this holiday as well, but man what a perfect way to pass out Gospel tracts or even interacting with the kids and parents instead of hiding behind your locked door with lights turned off. It is crazy people will celebrate Memorial day but when it comes to Halloween (Samhain) they see it as evil. Granted they don't get dressed up for memorial day, but they are honoring their ancestors and Samhain is basically memorial day with a twist lol.

Anyone can make any day evil if they really want to. I give everyday to Jesus no matter what someone in the past did on that day. I thank God for nature and the seasons and everything He has blessed us with. God Bless

 

[JGIG]

LOL I never heard the word "Saturnalia". I have another one for my brain to get its neurons round, LOL I had to read it carefully it looks like santanella LOL, but joking apart it is a serious thing this winter celebration.

It is pagan. I had it explained to me that on the 25th, the sun starts to clime again and it is visible when using a 'henge'. Up to this point the sun sinks and to the human/flesh would seem to be shrinking for ever. Between the 21st and the 24th it comes to a stand still and does not sink, but neither does it rise. On the 25th it starts to clime again. This was used as a form of control. People were coerced into a belief system that seemed to rely on fear and ritual to make the sun rise.

Then comes the point of scrutiny, The word of God was watered down and started to loose its power. Those sent from Rome to convert the pagans that practised these things feared for their life, so instead of telling the truth, like Paul did in Athens, they incorporated these things and changed their meaning. The birth of a new year became the birth of Jesus, The planting festivals and the cultivation festivals, the harvest festivals, which all relied on the 'henge' became Easter and All Hallows day festivals (Easter because of the passover was an easy one to introduce).

All the saints days and there are loads of them, became the feasts of various tribes, and over the years that followed they were all incorporated in to what became ''christianity'' (small c intended). Through prayer I have been led to surmise that the "Deeds of the Nicolatians" are what brought about what christianity is now (in the wider context). The purity of Gods message has been eroded to input the excuse for a party with excess (because the pagans know how to throw a good party).

There is only one feast we are now called to partake of. We do all live in this world and have to interact with it. In my house we have home made decorations over the Christmas period and my children have gifts. But it has no bearing on Jesus or the wise men. For myself and my family it is just a family time. There is no religious connotation there, we use it as we do bonfire night (British history), it is just for fun. we could do it at another time but that would bring our children to a place I don't want them (I have seen how the children of JW's are treated when they have gifts given at mid summer, it isn't good).

It all comes down to how we perceive our relationship with Jesus. If we do as we are told, or if we add stuff and make it 'lore'. Have a celebration when ever you want one, always give thanks to God for what He has given you to be able to do it, but don't impose stuff that isn't there for imposing. Enjoy your life as you can. Any father loves to watch his children play and we have a wonderful father.

Thank you for the spirit of this post - but I'm sad that you separate Christ from the festivities, as it is an opportunity to be light in a dark world when the world is paying attention that they do not pay at other times of the year. It is an opportunity to share the love and Good News of Christ to the Lost.

Regarding this paragraph:

It is pagan. I had it explained to me that on the 25th, the sun starts to clime again and it is visible when using a 'henge'. Up to this point the sun sinks and to the human/flesh would seem to be shrinking for ever. Between the 21st and the 24th it comes to a stand still and does not sink, but neither does it rise. On the 25th it starts to clime again. This was used as a form of control. People were coerced into a belief system that seemed to rely on fear and ritual to make the sun rise.​

Whoever 'explained' that to you was mistaken or lying - even ancient astronomers would note that the sun moves along incrementally and steadily each day, with the only 'standing still' happening twice per year, at the Equinoxes at the beginning of Spring and Fall, when there is equal day and night. All other days has daylight and nighttime either waxing or waning, depending on whether the calendar is heading for Summer or Winter. There are no consecutive days where the sun comes to a 'stand still':





Folks, it is SO EASY to check out dates and origins of pagan rituals today - take a few minutes when someone tells you something sensational designed to point to paganism instead of Christ.

If you want a litmus test for determining if something is of God or not, remember that the Holy Spirit will always point to Christ and glorify Him. The enemy will always purpose to take your eyes off of Christ and put them on something, anything else - to keep you from seeing Christ and His Glory!

It always amazes me how much TIME those who rail against believers celebrating the birth of Christ spend STUDYING PAGANISM.

Something is wrong with that!

-JGIG

 

[disciplemike]

also, keep in mind, your heart will lie to you.
people run on emotions.
we really should consider what God actually says, in the context of "Holy Days".

 

[CeileDe]

also, keep in mind, your heart will lie to you.
people run on emotions.
we really should consider what God actually says, in the context of "Holy Days".

It doesn't have to be a Holy Day, just a day like any other day. So if you don't want to celebrate Jesus on the 25th don't. I celebrate Jesus every day of the year.

Matter of fact I think this year the Christmas tree is staying up all year just because I love the lights.

 

[JGIG]

God, the Creator, is very specific about which days He made holy.

Like it or not, He did not give us permission to make up our own.
Again, He was/is very clear when He told us to NOT do it.

My friends, God is the only one that can make a day holy or blessed. We can't.
We don't have that right.

21 I thank you that you have answered me
and have become my salvation.
22 The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone.
23 This is the Lord's doing;
it is marvelous in our eyes.
24 This is the day that the Lord has made;
let us rejoice and be glad in it.

(from Psalm 118)

​

Any and every day that celebrates the Cornerstone is a day that God has made and to be rejoiced in!

​-JGIG

 

[garee]

also, keep in mind, your heart will lie to you.
people run on emotions.
we really should consider what God actually says, in the context of "Holy Days".

Yes they were used as shadow as mere fleshly ceremonial laws up until the time of refomation. It is reflected by today's new restored order according to 1 Corinthian 11.

Christ has come in the flesh the veil is still rent.

 

[disciplemike]

It doesn't have to be a Holy Day, just a day like any other day. So if you don't want to celebrate Jesus on the 25th don't. I celebrate Jesus every day of the year.

Matter of fact I think this year the Christmas tree is staying up all year just because I love the lights.

fair enough friend.
but can you tell me the meaning of your "Christmas tree"?

 

[AbigailZeke]

21 I thank you that you have answered me
and have become my salvation.
22 The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone.
23 This is the Lord's doing;
it is marvelous in our eyes.
24 This is the day that the Lord has made;
let us rejoice and be glad in it.

(from Psalm 118)

​

Any and every day that celebrates the Cornerstone is a day that God has made and to be rejoiced in!

​-JGIG

This is a good point re: holy days

 

[garee]

fair enough friend.
but can you tell me the meaning of your "Christmas tree"?

God uses evergreen to speak of believer sometimes considered as trees.W hite represent being clothed in His righteousness.

And Jacob took him rods of green poplar, and of the hazel and chesnut tree; and pilled white strakes in them, and made the white appear which was in the rods.Gen 30:37

Psalms 52:8 But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God: I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever.

And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.Mar 8:23

And remember its a cerimoinal law and not a moral tradition .Therefore we cannot judge one another in respect to it just like that of the Sabbath days

 

[CeileDe]

fair enough friend.
but can you tell me the meaning of your "Christmas tree"?

Lol, my meaning of the tree is it is a tree with pretty decorations on it. That is it and that is all it will ever be to me. I could care less what pagan tradition it came from. And yes I do know where it comes from but it has nothing to do with my home and how I see the holiday. Like I said, it is all about Jesus.

 

[JGIG]

in my opinion,
the dec25 institution, has a long, deep, and varied history throughout the world.

it is observed in so many cultures in so many different ways, and was even observed before Christ was ever born.

it was even illegal to celebrate in Boston from 1659 until 1681 - and was made illegal by Christians.

Made illegal by Christians like you or by Christians like me ?

And how does one make it 'illegal' to celebrate Christ on a specific day?

That's like saying prayer is illegal in schools.

One is able to pray anywhere, anytime, secretly to God - it cannot be made illegal!

-JGIG

 

[bornofgod]

All of God's saints learn about man's traditions, languages and false gods they build with their human hands that are inspired by the Beast. God has planned to destroy Satan, the false prophet, the flesh and the Beast soon with his fire.

Revelation 19
17: Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly in midheaven, "Come, gather for the great supper of God,
18: to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great."
19: And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who sits upon the horse and against his army.
20: And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulphur.
21: And the rest were slain by the sword of him who sits upon the horse, the sword that issues from his mouth; and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.

After all flesh has been destroyed and melted in the lake of fire, the spirit of God ( Word of God ) will remain until the New Heaven and Earth are ready for his created beings.

Revelation 21
8: But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death."

All man's traditions will be destroyed along with the flesh and they won't be remembered anymore.

Isaiah 65
16: So that he who blesses himself in the land shall bless himself by the God of truth, and he who takes an oath in the land shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten and are hid from my eyes.
17: "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.
18: But be glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19: I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and be glad in my people; no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping and the cry of distress.

 

[Grace777x70]

I for one believe Christmas is a great time for people to stop and think about the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You can feel the "goodness" in the atmosphere as people are giving and receiving. Giving is the very heart of God. None of us know the exact date of the Lord's birth and it is irrelevant in the scheme of things. It is a time to celebrate Him.

When the angels announced His birth - here is what they said.

Luke 2:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people;


Is there not great joy at Christmas time for those that give to others and those that receive the love shown to them?

I don't understand the constant need for the OP to continually try to get people to leave out Christ in things. Christ is the center of all things - not the Jewish law of Moses which is what is really behind the main trust of these kinds of threads.

 

[JGIG]

I dont celebrate Halloween, but candy is good any day of the year

Especially when purchased at 50-75% off after Halloween !

-JGIG

 

[CeileDe]

All of God's saints learn about man's traditions, languages and false gods they build with their human hands that are inspired by the Beast. God has planned to destroy Satan, the false prophet, the flesh and the Beast soon with his fire.

Revelation 19
17: Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly in midheaven, "Come, gather for the great supper of God,
18: to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great."
19: And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who sits upon the horse and against his army.
20: And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulphur.
21: And the rest were slain by the sword of him who sits upon the horse, the sword that issues from his mouth; and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.

After all flesh has been destroyed and melted in the lake of fire, the spirit of God ( Word of God ) will remain until the New Heaven and Earth are ready for his created beings.

Revelation 21
8: But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death."

All man's traditions will be destroyed along with the flesh and they won't be remembered anymore.

Isaiah 65
16: So that he who blesses himself in the land shall bless himself by the God of truth, and he who takes an oath in the land shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten and are hid from my eyes.
17: "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.
18: But be glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19: I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and be glad in my people; no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping and the cry of distress.

Not sure which bible passage you got that traditions will be destroyed. Yes all will be destroyed but you are really reaching here to make this mean we shouldn't worship Christ on the 25th

 

[disciplemike]

ok, let's look at it another way.

Some of you shun the "ceremonial" laws of the Bible, such as the Holy Days, but?,..

you accept the Dec25 ritual? (as I did for a time)
even when there is nowhere in the New Testament that suggests the Dec25 ritual.
and I am not even touching on the walmart gods yet.


How does that work?

 

[JGIG]

Not sure which bible passage you got that traditions will be destroyed. Yes all will be destroyed but you are really reaching here to make this mean we shouldn't worship Christ on the 25th

Which raises a good question:

Is there EVER a day when we shouldn't worship and honor Christ?

-JGIG