my sin isn't as bad as your's

mark54 · Mar 25, 2013

saved1982 said:

I am not seeking to condone smoking, but eternal ife does not hinge on whether or not a person smokes
I read a book of a man who had wrongfully been sent to prison for manslaughter. When he was released he became a Christian. Over the next few years much was dealt with by God in his life. Hurts, resentfulness, deep rooted problems. But he still smoked. Eventually he was asked to speak at a meeting and give his testimony before many people. On the way to the meeting he felt strongly he should finally quit the smoking. He did. That man has preached and given his terstiomony all over the world and seen many healings as he has done so.
He said it amazed him, that people Christians iused to give him disapproving looks when they saw him smoking. Other things in his life, that he considered worse than smoking were being dealt with first, but smoking is a 'fault' if you like that can be seen. I wonder if God is not r more concerned with faults that can at times be covered up and are inward

And God will bless you if you still smoke, it is untrue to believe otherwise, though I repeat, I am not trying to condone smoking

twofeet · Mar 25, 2013

I agree with you Mark, too many PEOPLE are interested in outward appearances, the things you see and are so very quick to heap judgement Jesus called these people Pharisees and their Father Satan. They are whitewashed tombs but the heart is not clean.

God wants to clean up the inner man, the heart...the very reason why we do things wrong because when God heals and changes those things you become a new creature in Christ, built up from the inside. I know in my early days as a Christian I had suffered alot of abuse buy one person. Everytime I thought of them anger rose up in me. For 2 and half years I kept praying that I would be able to forgive from the heart....completely....100%....because I knew that it was a sin not to and also it would set me free. After 2 and half years of battling this I went on holiday, drove 150 miles. When I got there this person was also at the same place having a holiday! By the end of my holiday, seeking the Lord, having to bump into this person around the place I had finally got my prayers answered and the help I needed. Now, I can chill and have a beer with this person with no residue of bad feelings. They are TOTALLY forgiven.

This post was originally about outward show, and sins seen. God wants to work on the heart of a person and He doesnt give up until a person is free. Outward sins are deep rooted and God wants to work at the very heart....not whitewashing walls.

This obviously is not a licences to keep sinning....but as I just shared, aslong as a heart is determined to change and wants rid if sin then the Lord will help them for those that hunger and thirst for righteousness will be filled.It just sometimes takes time to get right to the core.

hattiebod · Mar 25, 2013

twofeet said:

Thank you to you and Mark for your measured responses, in love and thoughtfully given. Smoking is now known to be something we are best not to do...but when CS Lewis was alive, he smoked, I think Tozer also smoked, Billy Graham did...many strong men of God did and no one thought anything of it and their depth of faith and salvation was never questioned. We all sin, we all make mistakes, the whole point of the cross is that we are forgiven. How can we dilute Christs ability on the cross and choose for Him, what He will and will not do? I would suggest anger is much more damaging to our walk than having a cigarette is ( and I am not condoning smoking either! ) God Bless. <><

my_adonai_ · Mar 25, 2013

then i suppose its all about wanting to change and showing diligence in wanting to change. and keep going until one gets freedom. Jesus help us all.

my_adonai_ · Mar 25, 2013

honestly i believe what the LORD was telling me is that, we should not excuse sin, neither should we say that somebody forced us to sin. but should have that continous mind of continous cleansing.

but what troubles my heart on this is that, what if the LORD comes when am not ready? you know?? when am still caught in a sin, i am not perfect i agree. yet again on the other hand sinners will not see GOD, what if He raptures me when am not ready.
i have had dreams of the LORD showing me this, one dream the Lord is coming and am busy worrying and repenting, saying oh LORD forgive me, Father forgive me for this and that. you do not know how frustrating that is, preaching unto others, when you yourself are struggling with something. it is indeed the truth and i do try to speak as per what i know and have been taught. but knowing GOD is a holy GOD, who wants righteous people, where will i stand in this? a GOD that has done nothing but love me, where will i hide that shame huh? when those fingers point at me, saying HE preached at me, now look where he is. do you see what i am trying to say here? i have worked the works of GOD, many times, seen HIS glory, a lot of times. but where will i stand when HE comes and sees my heart still struggling with something as uncompulsory as sin.
its frustrating, brings tears to my eyes at times, i pray i read HIS word. but all this time HE has only shown me goodness, but where is my heart in all this?

you see whenever someone tells me of my imperfections i shut off you know, its like i am telling myself you are not good enough. and brings in fear like when GOD descends right then i am going to hell. is this not true? i know fear is not good, but yet is this not true?

what am i not seeing here?

my_adonai_ · Mar 25, 2013

i know that sounded self condemning, and indeed i do beat myself a lot of the times. In truth i really do not understand what Love is, i have learnt to only do what i am supposed to do. and when i make mistakes to that, again self condemnation comes, but i get over it most of the times, cry on it. and mix it with anger, i just get frustrated, but when i think about what God has done for, i just come back repenting.
Listen all my life, the very parents, i have not LEARNT to know what LOVE IS . i have known LUST, yes a LOT OF IT. a lot of pornography, a lot of masturbation, my heart actually got used to it. so indeed am not excusing myself just telling you the reality. indeed on the outside tough, and because i care for people, dont want them hurt, i put on my best act.and justify myself through a certain scripture. ai, i do not know GOD, i know HIS word. i know HIS joy, HIS peace.

FATHER HELP ME ...............

carey · Mar 25, 2013

Hattibod, twofeet, & mark54,
The 3 of you have so eloquently gotten to the core of this thread! Bless you! Not only are the inside sins more damaging than the outside one's, but you have to get to the core of why we do what we do,
I believe that's why Jesus was so upset with the Pharasies, they showed an outward appearance of holiness, but their inside was completely wicked,
we can't just give lip service to God, that doesn't work, we must be willing to change our hearts and get to the root of things, as for me I have some very deep abandonment and neglect issues that have caused bitterness, I built walls around me so that I would never be hurt again, but praise be to God and His mercy's, He broke down those walls! I still have bitterness, but God is working on it

mark54 · Mar 25, 2013

my_adonai_ said:

I am sure you have read Rom ch7. Paul was alive until the law/commanmdment came to him(one of the Ten Commandments was given as an example) but when it came sin sprang to life and he died. The very commandment that was intended to give him life, resulted in death instead. He said
But sin, taking occasion by the commandment(one of the ten commandments), wrought in me all manner of concupiscence(check that word out in your dictionary). For without the law sin was dead.

Biblically speaking, only if you in your heart believe you only have one righteousness before God, faith in Christ, will you see much sin in your life overcome
If you beat yourself up over your imperfections, fearing they will keep you from being a Christian, then sin will never abate in your life.
Someone said, Christ died to pay the penalty of our sin, and to break the power of sin, and the
power of sin is the law(1Cor15:56)

There is so much that can be said of this subject, but obviously you hate the sin, victory over it cannot be achieved by you looking at the sin and striving to defeat it, believing if you do not succeed God may cast you out. You need to look to Christ and rejoice in your salvatkion, a salvation he died to give you, if you stand in this righteousness, you will contionue to hate the sin, but will start to see victory over it. Look to Christ, not yourself and your imperfections
For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace(through faith, in Christ)
If you condemn yourself according to your sin, you are, however inadvertently, living under a righteousness lof lawkeeping, for sin is transgression of the law, that is what satan wants you to do, don't be fooloed by him
Hate the sin, yes, but look to Jesus, not yourself for victory over it

carey · Mar 25, 2013

@my adonai:
I pray that what I am about to say will greatly encourage you. STOP!!! I used to do exactly what you described, I even fell into a time of depression, because I thought "how can I possibly follow all of your commands, I love you Lord, you know I do, but there's just sooo much" you know what the Lord told me? He said, just love me, give me your heart, and I will do the rest. It's like a light bulb turned on. Fear is the absence of faith, if you find yourself loaded down with fear because your not doing everything right, that is the enemy working overtime on you, he is the accuser of the brethren, he doesn't want you to succeed, and if we are weighed down by trying to do everything correctly, we fall into the trap of perfectionism, and that is an ugly bondage that is hard to break free of, lean on Jesus, trust in Him, His yoke is meant to be easy, not filled with what ifs and worrying, He will give you that light bulb moment, just continue loving Him

Skinski7 · Mar 25, 2013

carey said:

The problem with what you believe is how you approach sin (whether it is inward or outward). In your mind you believe salvation is something completely apart from heart purity, hence you allude to having bitterness while being in a state of salvation.

You are exactly right regarding the Pharisees. They were inwardly defiled with an outward appearance of holiness, which is why Jesus commanded them to "cleanse first that which is within that the outside be clean also" (mat 23:26). The central theme of the teaching of Jesus is that of inward heart purity.

If you look at the sermon on the Mount (Mat 5-7) Jesus is clearly teaching on heart purity and how it is attained. He addresses the sins of adultery and murder and gives them deeper meaning by teaching that if you inwardly lust or inwardly hate then you are in fact guilty of both sins (Mat 5:21-28). He prefaced that teaching with this statement...

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus was speaking of an INWARD RIGHTEOUSNESS as opposed to the OUTWARD FORM that the scribes and Pharisees manifested. The exceeding righteousness was in this context...

Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

All those characteristics result from a godly sorrow that works a genuine repentance experience. It is through this change of mind in repentance that one hungers and thirsts for righteousness having put off the old.

It is the "pure in heart" who will see God. Notice that Jesus does not say "those who WANT a pure heart will see God." This is why the modern message of "being saved" yet remaining "inwardly defiled" is a lie.

The Bible speaks of the Christian having been purified within (Act 15:9, 1Pet 1:21). Jesus came to purify us within (Tit 2:14) and yet today we have to ask why is such heart purity denied by people who profess to follow Jesus?

Seriously think about that!

You brought up "bitterness" Carey. Look at what the Bible says about bitterness...

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

Here is a strong warning about failing the grace of God and allowing a root of bitterness to spring up. It is not teaching about God removing present bitterness because this ought to have already happened through repentance and faith. This is a warning to a Christian who has been cleansed within about the danger of a root of bitterness springing up. Bitterness is really a form of unforgiveness and for it to take hold defiles the heart.

So Carey I emplore you to really look at what the Bible actually states, not what you think it states.

The churches today preach a salvation message devoid of genuine heart purity, heart purity is presented as some nebulous future thing which people hope for but in the meantime they remain defiled and sinning every day. It is not the Gospel, it is another teaching where the grace of God has been twisted into a cloak for ongoing defilement.

It is really the same error as the Pharisees who sought their salvation apart from genuine inward cleanliness, so it is today with the modern professing Christian. Also just like the Pharisees, the modern professing Christian's generally shut their ears to the truth. They are satisfied with their "religion" and thus despise the true call of God.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These people above never had their hearts purified. They remained inwardly defiled and thus remained workers of iniquity.

Skinski7 · Mar 25, 2013

my_adonai_ said:

That is what Satan wants people to believe, if they merely "want to change" then all is good. No it isn't.

Wanting to change is good but it is not the end of the matter. Wanting to change must lead to ACTUAL CHANGE.

This is why Jesus speaks of being a DOER OF THE WORD as opposed to a HEARER ONLY.

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

James speaks of the same thing...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Those who remain inwardly defiled are the people who REFUSE to do what Jesus commanded them to do. There is no salvation to be found in a refusal to yield to God. One must lay aside their former life completely, pick up their cross, deny themselves and actually follow Jesus.

All known wrongdoing must cease. Any action that is still engaged in which is in rebellion to God is idolatry for it is putting that action before God. God cannot and will not save someone who refuses His counsel for that individual is despising His grace.

Remember what Jesus said about Israel...

Luk_13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

They "would not" and so it is today with many who profess Christ, they "will not."

mark54 · Mar 25, 2013

Skinski7 said:

The problem with what you believe is how you approach sin (whether it is inward or outward). In your mind you believe salvation is something completely apart from heart purity, hence you allude to having bitterness while being in a state of salvation.

You are exactly right regarding the Pharisees. They were inwardly defiled with an outward appearance of holiness, which is why Jesus commanded them to "cleanse first that which is within that the outside be clean also" (mat 23:26). The central theme of the teaching of Jesus is that of inward heart purity.

If you look at the sermon on the Mount (Mat 5-7) Jesus is clearly teaching on heart purity and how it is attained. He addresses the sins of adultery and murder and gives them deeper meaning by teaching that if you inwardly lust or inwardly hate then you are in fact guilty of both sins (Mat 5:21-28). He prefaced that teaching with this statement...

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus was speaking of an INWARD RIGHTEOUSNESS as opposed to the OUTWARD FORM that the scribes and Pharisees manifested. The exceeding righteousness was in this context...

Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

All those characteristics result from a godly sorrow that works a genuine repentance experience. It is through this change of mind in repentance that one hungers and thirsts for righteousness having put off the old.

It is the "pure in heart" who will see God. Notice that Jesus does not say "those who WANT a pure heart will see God." This is why the modern message of "being saved" yet remaining "inwardly defiled" is a lie.

The Bible speaks of the Christian having been purified within (Act 15:9, 1Pet 1:21). Jesus came to purify us within (Tit 2:14) and yet today we have to ask why is such heart purity denied by people who profess to follow Jesus?

Seriously think about that!

You brought up "bitterness" Carey. Look at what the Bible says about bitterness...

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

Here is a strong warning about failing the grace of God and allowing a root of bitterness to spring up. It is not teaching about God removing present bitterness because this ought to have already happened through repentance and faith. This is a warning to a Christian who has been cleansed within about the danger of a root of bitterness springing up. Bitterness is really a form of unforgiveness and for it to take hold defiles the heart.

So Carey I emplore you to really look at what the Bible actually states, not what you think it states.

The churches today preach a salvation message devoid of genuine heart purity, heart purity is presented as some nebulous future thing which people hope for but in the meantime they remain defiled and sinning every day. It is not the Gospel, it is another teaching where the grace of God has been twisted into a cloak for ongoing defilement.

It is really the same error as the Pharisees who sought their salvation apart from genuine inward cleanliness, so it is today with the modern professing Christian. Also just like the Pharisees, the modern professing Christian's generally shut their ears to the truth. They are satisfied with their "religion" and thus despise the true call of God.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These people above never had their hearts purified. They remained inwardly defiled and thus remained workers of iniquity.

It would be helpful Skinski, just so people are not given the wrong impression, if you could add at the end of your posts that you cannot yourself live up to what you have just demanded of others.

carey · Mar 25, 2013

Skinski
I refuse to listen to you until you can admit to your own sins, I'm not asking for a list, just admit you are not perfect, in my opinion you are no better than the Pharasies, you claim to be holy, yet your heart is wicked and filled with all manner of deceit, we have not been perfected yet, I pray God will humble you soon, you have deceived yourself

Radius · Mar 25, 2013

carey said:

Skinski
I refuse to listen to you until you can admit to your own sins, I'm not asking for a list, just admit you are not perfect, in my opinion you are no better than the Pharasies, you claim to be holy, yet your heart is wicked and filled with all manner of deceit, we have not been perfected yet, I pray God will humble you soon, you have deceived yourself

Whenever Skinski posts, just simply reply "1 John 1:8."

Skinski7 · Mar 25, 2013

carey said:

Jesus claimed otherwise...

Moral Perfection
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect (G5046), even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Perfect - G5046 - teleios
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

Perfect in character
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect (G737), throughly furnished unto all good works.

Perfect - G739 - artios
From G737; fresh, that is, (by implication) complete: - perfect.

Perfect spirit.
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect (G5048),

Perfect - G5048 - teleioō
From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.

Perfect Faith
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect G(5048)?

Faith Purifies the Heart
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying (G2511) their hearts by faith.

Purifying - G2511 -katharizō
From G2513; to cleanse (literally or figuratively): - (make) clean (-se), purge, purify.

When the Bible teaches we are not perfect it is in reference to being delivered from corruptible flesh in the resurrection.

Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect (G5048): but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Perfect - G5048 - teleioō
From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.

Being delivered from corruptible flesh does not preclude moral perfection in the present.

Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect (G5046), be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Perfect - G5046 - teleios
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

It appears I can quote scripture until I am blue in the face with many of you folks but that fact of the matter is that you folks don't actually believe the Scripture. You believe a "religion" with its "associated dogma" just like the Pharisees in Jesus day. Whenever the truth contradicts your religion then you will speak against the truth.

You folks don't address these passages in the Bible because you cannot. All you can do is make accusations and try and redirect the conversation by asking questions, not questions about what the Scriptures teach mind you, questions that attempt to malign the character of the messenger.

All you folks who deny the possiblity of heart purity are denying Jesus. You hold to a false Jesus of your imaginations, a Jesus who saves you and yet leaves you inwardly defiled and in still in bondage to sin. You don't believe the Bible except where you can pull a few tidbits out of context to support your lies.

Let me ask this in regards to 1Joh 1:8. Did you folks find that verse through your own studies? Or was it given to you by someone else who used to as a proof text for an ongoign state of defilement in a Christian? Be honest with yourselves.

To believe that that verse supports an ongoing state of sinfulness reveals that you have NEVER studied the First Epistle of John independent of your religious dogma. Thus you bend the Bible to fit your doctrine as opposed to bending your doctrine to fit the Bible.

Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Skinski7 · Mar 25, 2013

Radius said:

It is easy to isolate a single verse out of context to prove that you cannot depart from iniquity and be made pure. You uphold a religion of continual sinning. What an abomination to God.

Jer 12:10 Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.
Jer 12:11 They have made it desolate, and being desolate it mourneth unto me; the whole land is made desolate, because no man layeth it to heart.
Jer 12:12 The spoilers are come upon all high places through the wilderness: for the sword of the LORD shall devour from the one end of the land even to the other end of the land: no flesh shall have peace.
Jer 12:13 They have sown wheat, but shall reap thorns: they have put themselves to pain, but shall not profit: and they shall be ashamed of your revenues because of the fierce anger of the LORD.
Jer 12:14 Thus saith the LORD against all mine evil neighbours, that touch the inheritance which I have caused my people Israel to inherit; Behold, I will pluck them out of their land, and pluck out the house of Judah from among them.
Jer 12:15 And it shall come to pass, after that I have plucked them out I will return, and have compassion on them, and will bring them again, every man to his heritage, and every man to his land.
Jer 12:16 And it shall come to pass, if they will diligently learn the ways of my people, to swear by my name, The LORD liveth; as they taught my people to swear by Baal; then shall they be built in the midst of my people.
Jer 12:17 But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.

Jer 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
Jer 23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

The false prophets produce sinning converts.

mark54 · Mar 25, 2013

Skinski7 said:

Do you clain to be morally perfect Skinski?
Simple question that requires a simple answer
Yes or no

Seems to me this is just more of the same, demanding of others what you do not live up to yourself

It also seems to me that what you are in effect saying is:

'Look at me, I hardly ever sin, you must try and attain to where I am'

It's called pride.

JaumeJ · Mar 25, 2013

The Love that is God the Father teaches we are seen as perfect by Him because we have accepted His gift in the Blood of Jesus Christ, Yeshua, as propitiation for our sins. As it is written, the ransom of our soul is very expensive, too expensive for creatures who have nothing. Yes, we are perfect because our God is perfect, He does not impute the guilt of our sin to us, therefore we are perfect because He is perfect. He is light years beyond being perfect as is His great love for each of us. I am not perfect in myself nor will I ever be perfect in the flesh, but He will not abandon the work He began in me in 1969, Good Friday, when His Holy Spirit entered into me teaching me everything will be just fine. We should allow for our brethren to also be perfected, if not, we have not truly accepted the free gift of salvation. Praise our Maker, He is good always, and He is worthy, amen.

Skinski7 · Mar 25, 2013

mark54 said:

Yes. My heart has been purified. All saints have been made clean via an obedient faithfulness (yielding to God) whereby God has cleansed us inwardly that we may walk in His precepts loving God with all our heart, soul and mind and our neighbour as ourselves.

Contending against error is not unloving or prideful. The preaching of the Gospel and the admonishment of people to turn from their sin and yield to God is something done in love because we are genuinely concerned with people losing their souls due to their iniquity.

God is merciful but His mercy is conditioned on repentance. We have to leave the pig pen as a condition of being restored. As Isaiah the prophet preached...

Isa 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
Isa 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

mark54 · Mar 25, 2013

Skinski7 said:

Yes. My heart has been purified. All saints have been made clean via an obedient faithfulness (yielding to God) whereby God has cleansed us inwardly that we may walk in His precepts loving God with all our heart, soul and mind and our neighbour as ourselves.

Contending against error is not unloving or prideful. The preaching of the Gospel and the admonishment of people to turn from their sin and yield to God is something done in love because we are genuinely concerned with people losing their souls due to their iniquity.

God is merciful but His mercy is conditioned on repentance. We have to leave the pig pen as a condition of being restored. As Isaiah the prophet preached...

Isa 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
Isa 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Will. you answer the question

Do you claim to be morally perfect?

my sin isn't as bad as your's

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