The Absurdity of ‘Born a Sinner’

[eternally-gratefull]

how disappointing. this is heartbreaking.
can you show this to me EG?
carefully without conjecture?

because if what you say is so, everyone who has faith has performed a greater work on their own, contributed more to their own salvation...everything in fact.

their FAITH saved them.

literally.

faith in what? where did that faith come from?

lol Zone. Are you serious? what is heartbreaking is saying God is an evil dictator who holds truth from some, and only allows some to see it based on some unknown factor. then to excuse that belief by saying God is God and who can question him?

We HAVE BEEN SAVED BY FAITH. Not by my own power.

If I am trying to save myself by my own power. what must I do? I MUST WORK.

Thus "by my own power" is a reference to "not of works" not faith.

How can me having faith be a greater work than God? are you kidding me? Is my faith in myself? in my works? in making myself God and my own way to heaven? or is it in the finished work of Christ.

if it is the first three. My faith is dead, because it is self focused. if it is the last one. then GOD had the great power. because HE DiD ALL THE WORK!!

Faith in what? I showed you. Eph 1 13. After we heard the WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION. WE TRUSTED IN HIM. Our faith IS IN THE GOSPEL. vs FAITH IN SELF

Why did Isreal reject Christ? Because instead of coming to God in faith. they tried to come by the law. thus they were blinded by their faith in works, and could not understand Grace when it stared them in the face. All mankind comes to this point, where they have to make a decision. Do they trust self? or trust God?

It is a trust in self which keeps us from truth. Not God not allowing us to see truth.

where did faith come from? Who did all the work? Who made the promise? Who paid the price? Who offers the gift? answer these questions, and you have your answer as to where my faith came from. Notice. Nothing in those replies speak a thing about self. Faith in God is minus self. Because HE DID ALL THE WORK.

 

[tribesman]

Matthew 11
And Jesus answered them, “Go and tell John what you hear and see:
The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor.

John 5:36
"I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me.

Yup sis, some good anti-decisionist scriptures right there.

 

[tribesman]

...We HAVE BEEN SAVED BY FAITH. Not by my own power...HE DID ALL THE WORK.

The question still remains: where did that saving faith originate/come from?

 

[PS]

how disappointing. this is heartbreaking.
can you show this to me EG?
carefully without conjecture?

because if what you say is so, everyone who has faith has performed a greater work on their own, contributed more to their own salvation...everything in fact.

their FAITH saved them.

literally.

faith in what? where did that faith come from?

Does this help?

Gal 2:16 We know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

 

[cfultz3]

Yup sis, some good anti-decisionist scriptures right there.

Not my will but your will be done. And Jesus went out to accomplish the will of the Father, laying aside His will. The very same will He had as the Word before coming a Son.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

what gift?

Your joking right?

what made you stand still?

again, your joking right? what made you stand still? your trust in yourself?

how did a man who was a criminal rebel dead in trespasses and sins suddenly decide to stand still and summon up faith?

lol.. Again, your joking right? What is the gospel? are you saying it has no power to make men stand still??

Romans 1:16 [ The Just Live by Faith ] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.

Is the gospel powerless??

never mind the whole of the LAW.

who said anything about law? did abraham have the law? yet he had faith. how about Noah? did he have the law. Lets stop looking at the law. many men were saved because they stood still and trusted God before the law was even given.

THAT performance by self would be the greatest work of all.

No performance of self can be a great work. for self only leads to death, it is when we set self aside and only then that we can chose to trust God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I heard that before Christ, some had faith and by that faith, they were delivered from Hades. Salvation is indeed by faith, but that faith comes by hearing and that hearing by the Word of God and by such we believe unto salvation.

amen. faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. It is the power of salvation (the gospel) to all who believe. it is death to all who reject.

 

[cfultz3]

The question still remains: where did that saving faith originate/come from?

Faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by the Word of God.

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says.

I am to believe in the One God sent so that I might work the work of God.

Faith comes from the heart of one who is contrite and seeks after the face of God.

By which faith, we obtain salvation.

We beleive because we trust Him in His words.

 

[JaumeJ]

The question still remains: where did that saving faith originate/come from?

I used to think I beieved in God, and maybe I did, but at that time I did not yet believe God, Yahweh.

One night, heart-broken and in the dark, I prayed to "You are Who you are." Yahweh, God, will in no wise turn away a broken heart. He did not turn me away. He answered me in a dream. The following day thinking to Him I kept saying, "Mankind is evil, man is so wicked, man is so...wait just a moment, I am a man." At this realization I thought further, "YOU are It.." Suddenly everything turned to light and the light entered me, and I understood things I had never even heard before.

Along with this infilling of Yahweh, God's Spirit came the gift of faith, the great difference between believing in God and believing God. He is so good all of the time, amen.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly...who made the blind to see, the deaf to hear, the dead to be quickened?

How did the guilty become convinced of their sin and found no other refuge than the Lord Himself? Who did this work? Man???

faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God

Romans 1 plainly states ALL MEN KNOW THEY ARE GUILTY. If we know we ar eguilty and rightly judged, we can plainly know we need help. If we know we are judged already, we can also know there is nothing we can do to help ourself. Your making things more difficult then they have to be.

it is up to the gospel to prove to us we have no refuge but God. that us the power of God.

i understand your fear of not wanting to take credit for saving yourself. But you have to understand, you did not save yourself. the GOSPEL DID. all you did was place your faith in the power of the gospel. You can;t take credit for that. All credit goes to god. because the gospel is not about you, it is about God!

 

[zone]

like i said...that was a dumb idea.
skip it.
i said it wrong and you missed what i was saying - my bad.

yep. lets look at it.

1. we were dead.

right.

2. While we were dead, We were made alive (this is common sense, if one is made alive, it must be done while we are dead0

did we raise ourselves from spiritual death?
how were we made alive?

somewhere in depths of our fallen hearts was saving faith?
were does it say that ANYWHERE?

3. How did this occure. was it byu my power or by Gods power? well Paul answers this question.
4. we were saved (made alive) by Grace, and raised up with Christ. show that in the comming ages, he might show all creation the riches of his love.

ok.....so it was NOT by your power.
or works.
and He did it so He could show the riches of His love.
we already know He said there's nothing in us that made Him do this.

5. we were saved (made alive) by faith. and not by works. lest we take credit for ourselves. For we are his workman ship created in christ for good works (our salvation produces works. not the other way around.[/B]

but you said we weren't saved by anything we did.
that must include faith...you're anti-baptism and sacraments as works...how can saving faith worked up from within ourselves not be the greatest work ever?

1. He chose us, He predestined us and he adopted us.

He chose us because we first chose Him?
where does it say that?
where does it say He began creation after he saw us generating faith from within ourselves?
is His Plan according to our will?

2. we have redemption in him, who showed us the mystery of his will. and the glory of his great plan. We who FIRST CHOSE TO BELIEVE IN HIM.

chapter and verse?
the disciples were wandering around Galilee fishing and stuff!
then John said There is the Lamb of God!

He went and found THEM and said : FOLLOW ME.

He chose them!

3. How? We first heard the word of truth (as did many many other people who walked swith Christ, and who have heard the gospel of Christ) but we did not just hear it. we actually placed our faith in it. Having done this, we were sealed with the HS of promise.

^^^^^

5. we were saved (made alive) by faith. and not by works. lest we take credit for ourselves. For we are his workman ship created in christ for good works (our salvation produces works. not the other way around.[/B]

any questions?

will you be able to boast about being among the few who chose to summon up faith?
what a wonderful work! and all your own!

is that allowed anywhere in His Plan to bring Glory to Himself?

 

[zone]

Does this help?

Gal 2:16 We know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

help what?

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel.

Galatians 1:15
But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,

Romans 1:1
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God

Romans 8:28
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose

did Jesus choose Saul because Saul had faith in Him?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The question still remains: where did that saving faith originate/come from?

THE GOSPEL who is what? CHRIST

 

[PS]

help what?

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel.

Galatians 1:15
But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,

Romans 1:1
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God

Romans 8:28
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose

did Jesus choose Saul because Saul had faith in Him?

Good question. Saul had faith in God, a strong faith. Paul's problem was that he did not believe Jesus was God, but when the divinity of Jesus was revealed to him on the Damascus Road, Paul's faith in God was transferred to Jesus who was God on earth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

like i said...that was a dumb idea.
skip it.
i said it wrong and you missed what i was saying - my bad.
did we raise ourselves from spiritual death?
how were we made alive?

we were made alive, because that which made us dead was taken away (sin) which happened how and why? because we were justified (declared innocent) of that whihc made us dead.

And how were we justified? By faith.

somewhere in depths of our fallen hearts was saving faith?
were does it say that ANYWHERE?

we were saved by faith, we were justified by faith. Regeneration can not occure as long as we are still dead in sin can it? which means justification MUST PRECEDE regeneration otherwise, you have a dead sinner being made alive before that which can make him alive is still not present. I can not be made alive, until that which made me dead in the first place (sin) is removed.

ok.....so it was NOT by your power.
or works.
and He did it so He could show the riches of His love.
we already know He said there's nothing in us that made Him do this.

I never stated it was now did I?

but you said we weren't saved by anything we did.
that must include faith...you're anti-baptism and sacraments as works...how can saving faith worked up from within ourselves not be the greatest work ever?

because faith was not worked up into me. It was the gospel that gave me faith. not myself. again how many times do I have to tell you. if it were not for the gospel. what could I have faith in?? Nothing but myself.

what separates me and all nonbelievers, is they still chose to trust self over the gospel. thus the gospel has no power over them.

He chose us because we first chose Him?
where does it say that?
where does it say He began creation after he saw us generating faith from within ourselves?
is His Plan according to our will?

lol. keep twisting. Do you think you are going to convince be by saying this?

Does God know all things or does he not?? is God omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient or is he not.. You decide.

the disciples were wandering around Galilee fishing and stuff!
then John said There is the Lamb of God!

He went and found THEM and said : FOLLOW ME.

He chose them!

Yep. and one of them STILL REJECTED HIM.. so much for that.

What makes you think they wer enot already saved to begin with? he chose them to be his disciples. nothing there said he chose them only to save them. again, a twist on words which does not support your theory.

will you be able to boast about being among the few who chose to summon up faith?

How can I boast? what work did I do which caused me to EARN salvation?

what a wonderful work! and all your own!

Again. what work did I do which caused me to EARN SALVATION?

is that allowed anywhere in His Plan to bring Glory to Himself?

Faith is not my work. it is my trust in his work. why are you finding such a hard time understanding this? Is it because you were brought up in this belief?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good question. Saul had faith in God, a strong faith. Paul's problem was that he did not believe Jesus was God, but when the divinity of Jesus was revealed to him on the Damascus Road, Paul's faith in God was transferred to Jesus who was God on earth.

Sauls faith was in self and his ability to fulfill the law to save himself. He was saved, because he took his focus off himself and realized his faith was misplaced. and needed to go on to the work of someone else.

 

[zone]

Good question. Saul had faith in God, a strong faith. Paul's problem was that he did not believe Jesus was God, but when the divinity of Jesus was revealed to him on the Damascus Road, Paul's faith in God was transferred to Jesus who was God on earth.

John 8:19
They [Pharisees] said to him therefore, “Where is your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”

 

[zone]

Sauls faith was in self and his ability to fulfill the law to save himself. He was saved, because he took his focus off himself and realized his faith was misplaced. and needed to go on to the work of someone else.

he took his focus off himself?
he was galloping toward Damascus to drag christians to their deaths.

at what point did he take his focus off himself and realize his 'faith' was misplaced?

i love you EG

 

[eternally-gratefull]

he took his focus off himself?
he was galloping toward Damascus to drag christians to their deaths.

at what point did he take his focus off himself and realize his 'faith' was misplaced?

i love you EG

when he heard the gospel of Christ..And finally understood his faith was wrong all along.

The gospel. the power of salvation TO ALL WHO BELIEVE.. The power of death to all who hear and reject.

love ya too sis, you know that!

 

[zone]

Faith is not my work. it is my trust in his work. why are you finding such a hard time understanding this? Is it because you were brought up in this belief?

Romans 12:3
For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned


metron: a measure
Original Word: μέτρον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: metron
Phonetic Spelling: (met'-ron)
Short Definition: a measure, measuring rod
Definition: a measure, whether lineal or cubic; a measuring rod.

3358 métron – properly, a measure (the actual measure itself); (figuratively) the basis for determining what is enough (or not enough), what is fair (or not fair), etc.

3358 /métron ("standard, measure") is the controlling basis by which something is determined as acceptable or unacceptable – preeminently rooting to the Lord Himself as His being is the only ultimate measure of truth.



pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

4102 pístis (from 3982/peithô, "persuade, be persuaded") – properly, persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith.

Faith (4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102/pistis ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).

[4102 (pistis) in secular antiquity referred to a guarantee (warranty). In Scripture, faith is God's warranty, certifying that the revelation He inbirthed will come to pass (His way).

Faith (4102/pistis) is also used collectively – of all the times God has revealed (given the persuasion of) His will, which includes the full revelation of Scripture (Jude 3). Indeed, God the Lord guarantees that all of this revelation will come to pass! Compare Mt 5:18 with 2 Tim 3:16.]

1. The root of 4102/pistis ("faith") is 3982/peithô ("to persuade, be persuaded") which supplies the core-meaning of faith ("divine persuasion"). It is God's warranty that guarantees the fulfillment of the revelation He births within the receptive believer (cf. 1 Jn 5:4 with Heb 11:1).

Faith (4102/pistis) is always received from God, and never generated by us.

Ro 12:3: "For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith (4102/pistis)" (NASU).

Eph 2:8,9: " For by grace you have been saved through faith (4102/pistis); and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast" (NASU).



merizó: to divide
Original Word: μερίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: merizó
Phonetic Spelling: (mer-id'-zo)
Short Definition: I divide, part, share
Definition: I divide into parts, divide, part, share, distribute; mid: I share, take part in a partitioning; I distract.

3307 merízō(from 3313 /méros, "a single part, member") – properly, to divide, distribute into parts (portions), i.e. separate (distinguish) one part from another.

[3307 /merízō can be used positively meaning "distribute as properly needed" (1 Cor 7:17.]