Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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Salvation is a gift, there is no work to gain salvation aside from yielding to the Sacrifice of the Lamb of Yahweh, however faith will die without works. Faith without works is self-delusion.
The main problem with these posts on salvation and works is the readers and posters confusing faith with salvation. Think on it, that is meditate on it.
The main problem with these posts on salvation and works is the readers and posters confusing faith with salvation. Think on it, that is meditate on it.
right. you belong to the true church which will never fall away. does your church have a name? i would like to join it to be certain i don't fall away.
what exactly have you "restored" that ensures you're never in apostasy? you know all the cults have made the same claim. they despise the universal church, and separate themselves yet come out and complain about the church.
what exactly have you "restored" that ensures you're never in apostasy? you know all the cults have made the same claim. they despise the universal church, and separate themselves yet come out and complain about the church.
Romans 5
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
i bet you have no peace. never sure if your works are good enough to reconcile you to God.
Hebrews 2
15 and deliver those who all their lifetime were subject to bondage through fear of death.
did you know that many hebrews were terrified of death, since they were lacking faith. they were never sure God knew them and loved them and cared for them, they did not believe, thought their performance determined his mercy. and died in terror and fear.
which they are told in hebrews was one reason christ came to them.
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
i bet you have no peace. never sure if your works are good enough to reconcile you to God.
Hebrews 2
15 and deliver those who all their lifetime were subject to bondage through fear of death.
did you know that many hebrews were terrified of death, since they were lacking faith. they were never sure God knew them and loved them and cared for them, they did not believe, thought their performance determined his mercy. and died in terror and fear.
which they are told in hebrews was one reason christ came to them.
do, it doesn't. it means salvation is not possible without the new birth (heart). the new heart does good works. it's God's work (the new heart). is he not going to make it right? the new heart sees everything differrently. makes amends, does good works. not for salvation. and never perfectly. not even close.
but it desires to do good.......because it understands God. simple. and miraculous. someone can be saved and die the next day. is he out because he didn't visit the people in prison? get serious. the instructions are for the entire christian LIFE. instructions for living.
but it desires to do good.......because it understands God. simple. and miraculous. someone can be saved and die the next day. is he out because he didn't visit the people in prison? get serious. the instructions are for the entire christian LIFE. instructions for living.
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You state "no works demonstrates that they are not a Christian" then that means works are necessary to being a Christian making works necessary to being saved....which is what the title of my thread is about.
Eph 2:10; Matt 25; 1 Jn 3:10 make it impossible for one to be a saved Christian and not have good works.
In Rom 10:1-3 Paul says the fleshy Jews were lost. In verse 3 he tells us why they are lost and why they are not saved.
Those Jews were lost for they " ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness".
The Jews were doing works of merit trying to earn salvation. Jews would sometimes replace God's law with their own tradition and think if they kept their own traditions perfectly they would earn salvation.
Why were the those Jews lost? "have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God"
They were lost for they would not submit/obey the commandments of God. (Psa 119:172 all of God's commandments are righteousness). he Jews would not obey be believing and confessing > calling upon the name of the Lord, not obey the gospel, Rom 10:9,10,13,16
He built the ark to the saving of his house. Was he earning his salvation by working to build the ark? No. Building the ark was a condition on his salvation and therefore that work earned nothing. Just as obedience to the gospel in believing repenting confessing being baptized earn nothing.
Leaving house, land kindred was a work that earned him nothing. So another example of works earning nothing refuting those that claim any work always earn something.
Abraham believed God and he had an obedient belief as seen by his work in leaving.
Order of evens in rom 6:17,18
1) they were servants of sin
2) obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine
3) then they were freed from sin/justified
Clearly Paul put obedience BEFORE justification. In v16 Paulsays you are a servant to one of two masters. You serve either:
1) sin unto death
or
2) obedience unto righteousness
I serve #2.
James is showing a faith void of works is dead. Just as the flesh without blood is dead. Works give life to faith as blood gives life to flesh, Lev 17:11. It is not possible therefore to have faith without works. The bible ties works so closely to faith that faith is a work. Abrahams' faith would have been dead without the obedient work in offering Isaac, but it was that obedient work that gave life to his faith.
You posted " yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses "
Considering what you posted about helping brother and sister and what Christ said in Matt 25, and John in 1 Jn 3:17 - is it possible for a Christian to maintain his salvation and refuse to do good works for his brethren?
Jesus equates love to keeping His commandments, Jn 14:15. Keeping Christ's commandments is an obedient work. CHrist commanded Christians do good works. So we are back to this; can a Christian refuse to do good works yet maintain his salvation?
Eph 2:10; Matt 25; 1 Jn 3:10 make it impossible for one to be a saved Christian and not have good works.
In Rom 10:1-3 Paul says the fleshy Jews were lost. In verse 3 he tells us why they are lost and why they are not saved.
Those Jews were lost for they " ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness".
The Jews were doing works of merit trying to earn salvation. Jews would sometimes replace God's law with their own tradition and think if they kept their own traditions perfectly they would earn salvation.
Why were the those Jews lost? "have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God"
They were lost for they would not submit/obey the commandments of God. (Psa 119:172 all of God's commandments are righteousness). he Jews would not obey be believing and confessing > calling upon the name of the Lord, not obey the gospel, Rom 10:9,10,13,16
He built the ark to the saving of his house. Was he earning his salvation by working to build the ark? No. Building the ark was a condition on his salvation and therefore that work earned nothing. Just as obedience to the gospel in believing repenting confessing being baptized earn nothing.
Leaving house, land kindred was a work that earned him nothing. So another example of works earning nothing refuting those that claim any work always earn something.
Abraham believed God and he had an obedient belief as seen by his work in leaving.
Order of evens in rom 6:17,18
1) they were servants of sin
2) obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine
3) then they were freed from sin/justified
Clearly Paul put obedience BEFORE justification. In v16 Paulsays you are a servant to one of two masters. You serve either:
1) sin unto death
or
2) obedience unto righteousness
I serve #2.
James is showing a faith void of works is dead. Just as the flesh without blood is dead. Works give life to faith as blood gives life to flesh, Lev 17:11. It is not possible therefore to have faith without works. The bible ties works so closely to faith that faith is a work. Abrahams' faith would have been dead without the obedient work in offering Isaac, but it was that obedient work that gave life to his faith.
You posted " yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses "
Considering what you posted about helping brother and sister and what Christ said in Matt 25, and John in 1 Jn 3:17 - is it possible for a Christian to maintain his salvation and refuse to do good works for his brethren?
Jesus equates love to keeping His commandments, Jn 14:15. Keeping Christ's commandments is an obedient work. CHrist commanded Christians do good works. So we are back to this; can a Christian refuse to do good works yet maintain his salvation?
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VCO said "genuine FAITH produces good works, psuedo Faith does not produce good works, is all they are saying."
A genuine faith that saves prduces works
A fake faith that does not save has no works.
This implies one MUST have works in order to have a genuine faith that saves, which makes works as essential to salvation as the faith
A genuine faith that saves prduces works
A fake faith that does not save has no works.
This implies one MUST have works in order to have a genuine faith that saves, which makes works as essential to salvation as the faith
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How can works justify when you just stated one is justified by faith. No one in this entire thread has yet stated that one can be justified by works. Yet you mischaracterize what your opponents are saying and what scripture says as well.
All men had this fear. This is the condemnation of death through Adam. This is the death Christ overcame with His resurrection, giving life to the world. It is why we can even speak of having a relationship with Christ.
Christ came to the world, to save the world from death and sin. He came to reverse the fall of Adam. He reversed it so that man could get back to the purpose of why God created Adam (man) in the first place. When we speak about our relationship with Christ and salvation through faith we are speaking about the same relationship Adam had with God in the beginning, before he fell. The end is the same as the beginning.
All men had this fear. This is the condemnation of death through Adam. This is the death Christ overcame with His resurrection, giving life to the world. It is why we can even speak of having a relationship with Christ.
Christ came to the world, to save the world from death and sin. He came to reverse the fall of Adam. He reversed it so that man could get back to the purpose of why God created Adam (man) in the first place. When we speak about our relationship with Christ and salvation through faith we are speaking about the same relationship Adam had with God in the beginning, before he fell. The end is the same as the beginning.
If one is not being sanctified, then God has removed God's work that God started, after one decided to believe God, God starts the work and does not repent Brother
Ephesians 1:13 in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
Ephesians 1:13 in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise