The Free Gift of Salvation

crossnote · Apr 28, 2014

That is not the Great White Throne Judgment. That is the Bema seat where we Christians are judged for rewards and/or loss of rewards.

crossnote · Apr 28, 2014

Cassian said:

That might be a translator preference. The word that appears in most is one will not be condemned. But everyone will be judged.
The Cross made it possible for you to be able to believe and have a relationship with Christ. But believes is present tense, not past or future. It is also active and continuing. So one's entire life must show that belief is always present. If we lose faith, how can one be saved if salvation is dependent on our faith.

Baloney, it was at the cross Jesus took God's wrath due to me.

crossnote · Apr 28, 2014

Cassian said:

Again, that is not The WTJ either but according to Ryrie et. al....

all nations. Lit., all the Gentiles. This is a judgment of those Gentiles who survive the Tribulation and whose heart- relation to God is evidenced by their treatment of the Jews (Christ's brethren, v. 40), especially during that time. Surviving Jews will also be judged at this same time. Mat 25:32

newbirth · Apr 28, 2014

notuptome said:

Jesus said believe but what do you believe? What does believe mean to you? Does it mean to trust and confidence in?
To believe is not a void. So when we say believe in Christ we have to learn what he stands for and have full confidence in whatever he says.

crossnote · Apr 28, 2014

newbirth said:

We place our trust in HIM....it's in a Person...God in the flesh.

Cassian · Apr 28, 2014

crossnote said:

First, God never had wrath against you.
John 3:16 says otherwise. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Begotton Son......
Also Christ overlooked our sin and reconciled the world to God. II Cor 5:19
Rom 5:6-10 Christ died for the ungodly, for sinners. While we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

What Christ did was atone for sin, I John 2:2, and overcame the condemnation of death against us.
It is all love, not a bit of wrath can be seen.

But even if you would like your view, it still is that then God removed all the wrath from against every single human being. So, how does that help you as an individual?

posthuman · Apr 28, 2014

Cassian said:

"accepting" and "believing" are not two different things. if i reject Him, i am not reconciled. i hope what you are saying is tantamount to separating the cross from the empty tomb - Christ's atonement from His unspeakable gift for which His resurrection was a firstfruit. is that right? or are you teaching that all men are saved, regardless of whether they accept Christ or not?
i agree with the first, though in my mind they are not separate but part of the complete work of grace, but not the second.

Cassian said:

but though all cars were called in, not all cars were taken in, so not all cars were repaired. saying the act of issuing a recall is tantamount to repairing all cars is tantamount in this context to removing the need for repentance.
maybe this is just a lousy metaphor

lets see if we can sort it out:
a day of inspection will come.
all cars are faulty. all cars will fail inspection.
free diagnosis & repairs offered by letter.
some think letter is spam or for other reasons do not repair car.
some don't believe an inspection will ever come.
some try to repair their own car, but no one is qualified. still flunk smog test.
some insist their car is not faulty. still flunk smog test.
some receive the letter, believe it, but blow it off and don't have repairs done. still flunk smog test.
only those who accept free repairs are passed as acceptable.

now the automaker is justified, and has satisfied the law, and has made an offer of reconciliation to everyone. there is no liability to the automaker.
but only the car owners who believe/accept/trust in the letter that was sent to them, and follow its instructions are able to drive after the day of inspection.

OK yes this is a lousy metaphor.

Zinzerio · Apr 28, 2014

hi newbirth and cassian nice posts,, but sadly these people will not listen they think they have already made it heaven, even know they have only walked half there path, they think all there, future sins are forgiven, they think the law is done away with, some think the commandments are no longer valid but just 2,,, they think Hebrews 6:4-6 is not speaking about someone saved, (remember Satan was in heaven he must of been saved at one time look what happened to him,,
they think they have there own salvation worked out. and they think they can work out yours too

they hate Catholics and Jews they mock and condemn and slander there quite old in age,, and still they slander, they try to get other people to hate, they have little gangs that bate and switch sides all the time,, they bare false witness,
they say they know Jesus, they say they have been saved a long time, anyways just keep planting seeds that all you can do

but watch yourselfs what ever you do or say,, do not show any hate of any kind. pray to resist temptation..

crossnote · Apr 28, 2014

Cassian said:

God never had wrath towards us??

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
(Eph 2:1-3)

''So, how does that help you as an individual?''

For one no white throne judgment.
For two He gives us His Holy Spirit.
For three eternal life.

crossnote · Apr 28, 2014

Zinzerio said:

hi newbirth and cassian nice posts,, but sadly these people will not listen they think they have already made it heaven, even know they have only walked half there path, they think all there, future sins are forgiven, they think the law is done away with, some think the commandments are no longer valid but just 2,,, they think Hebrews 6:4-6 is not speaking about someone saved, (remember Satan was in heaven he must of been saved at one time look what happened to him,,
they think they have there own salvation worked out. and they think they can work out yours too

they hate Catholics and Jews they mock and condemn and slander there quite old in age,, and still they slander, they try to get other people to hate, they have little gangs that bate and switch sides all the time,, they bare false witness,
they say they know Jesus, they say they have been saved a long time, anyways just keep planting seeds that all you can do

but watch yourselfs what ever you do or say,, do not show any hate of any kind. pray to resist temptation..

Who on CC fits your condemning description? I believe much of what you accuse of. But I feel sorry for those of you are so busy trying to earn and complete what Christ already accomplished...it really is telling God that the death of His Son was not sufficient to save.

Zinzerio · Apr 28, 2014

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;…

Zinzerio · Apr 28, 2014

RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT

[TABLE="class: cms_table_cms_table"]
[TR]
[TD]1. "Receive ye the Holy Ghost"[/TD]
[TD]John 20:23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]2. "Let the children first be filled"[/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]Mark 7:27[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]3. "If any man thirst, let him come unto Me and drink"[/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]John 7:37-39[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]4. "Keep my commandments and…the Father…shall give you another Comforter"[/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]John 14:15-17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]5. "Ask…with importunity"[/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]John 16:24; Luke11:5-13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]6. "Tarry…until ye be endued with power from on high"[/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]Luke 24:49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]7. "When the Comforter is come…He shall testify of Me: and ye also shall bear witness"[/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]John 15:26-27[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: cms_table_cms_table"]
[TR]
[TD]1. "Pray always" [/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]Luke 21:36[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]2. "Pray that ye enter not into temptation"[/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]Luke 22:40, 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]3. "Pray…the Lord of the harvest, that He would send forth labourers"[/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]Luke 10:2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]4. "Pray for them which despitefully use you"[/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]Luke 6:28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]5. "Pray to the Father…in my name"[/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]Matt.6:6;
John16:24,26[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]6. "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father, which art in heaven…"[/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]Matt. 6:9-13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]7. "When ye pray, use not vain repetitions"John 15:26-27[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
FOLLOWING JESUS

[TABLE="class: cms_table_cms_table"]
[TR]
[TD]1. "Follow Me"[/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]John 12:26[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]2. "Be baptized"[/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]Matt. 3:13-15;
Matt. 28:19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]3. "Take this…(communion) in remembrance of Me"[/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]Luke 22:17-19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]4. "Ye also ought to wash one another’s feet"[/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]John 13:14-15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]5. "If any man will come after Me…let him take up his cross daily"[/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]Luke 9:23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]6. "Learn of Me"[/TD]
[TD="width: 88"]Matt. 11:29[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 384"]7. "Continue ye in My love[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

John 15:9

crossnote · Apr 29, 2014

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them."
(Gal 3:10)

Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
(Rom 3:19-20)

yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
(Gal 2:16)

Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
(Rom 3:27-28)

For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
(Rom 8:3)

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
(1Co 15:56-57)

Sirk · Apr 29, 2014

crossnote said:

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them."
(Gal 3:10)

Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
(Rom 3:19-20)

yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
(Gal 2:16)

Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
(Rom 3:27-28)

For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
(Rom 8:3)

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
(1Co 15:56-57)

As I stated in another thread. The law is a tool for the follower of Christ to identify sin. The law is just and righteous because God made it....but apart from Christ the law brings death.

Cassian · Apr 29, 2014

posthuman,

But you cannot accept His Work. YOu can believe that He accomplished it, which is what justifies one by that belief/faith.

You can reject him, as all unbelievers do and still will be given the gift. The problem here is that you do not understand what the gift entails.

What you are doing in your theolgy is separating yourself from the Gift altogether.
The Gift is atonement, it has two parts, sacrifice for sin and life through His resurrection. You cannot accept the sacrifice. If you think you can explain to me how that is done and what would be the purpose.

Secondly how can you accept your resurrection. Do you have a choice in your resurrection?

Well, any metaphor is difficult, but I tried to work with it. Still might be OK.
However, all cars taken in, all cars repaird, no exceptions. It makes repentance (driving the car possible). Could you drive it if not repaired?

This may be the end of the metaphor.
Lets put it back in scriptural understanding. If all men are dead, mortal beings, and have no eternal existance, why would God want to have a relationship with man when there is NO eternity. What would be the purpose of repentance, which it makes no difference. Man was already condemned to death, dust to dust. Does this help?

this is where your metahor loses it concept.
This is all about the purpose of the Gift. What the Gift was for regarding the purpose of man being created, then being saved from the fall.
The question I posed IS ONLY about the Gift itself, not what it was for.

Cassian · Apr 29, 2014

crossnote said:

Such density. The wrath is from us, not God. It does not say God had wrath against us. If He did he would not have sent His Son to die for us. This "dead in trespasses" is the condemnation of death through Adam, administered by Satan. You could also say we were children of Satan. But God in no wise hated us, or had wrath against us.

'

the reason I ask the question is that Christ's work saved every human being from death and sin. That is why we, mankind, could not save ourselves from the fall. Christ freed us from that bondage to death and sin, assigned to us through Satan.

Just doing that has no impact upon you as an individual. Your personal salvation is all through faith. Not what Christ did for mankind. His work made your individual salvation a possibility.

Sirk · Apr 29, 2014

Cassian said:

Such density. The wrath is from us, not God. It does not say God had wrath against us. If He did he would not have sent His Son to die for us. This "dead in trespasses" is the condemnation of death through Adam, administered by Satan. You could also say we were children of Satan. But God in no wise hated us, or had wrath against us.

'the reason I ask the question is that Christ's work saved every human being from death and sin. That is why we, mankind, could not save ourselves from the fall. Christ freed us from that bondage to death and sin, assigned to us through Satan.

Just doing that has no impact upon you as an individual. Your personal salvation is all through faith. Not what Christ did for mankind. His work made your individual salvation a possibility.

Okay...you need to be honest with us and state your denomination.

Cassian · Apr 29, 2014

crossnote said:

Your ignorance is such that your theology actually makes Christ but a mere historical figure head, a good teacher, but surely not the Savior of the World. Those few who are addressing the universal gift of salvation acknowledge that Christ saved everyone from death and sin. I don't think you comprehend what Christ is actually saving you from. Something which YOU cannot save yourself from.

It has nothing to do with being in a relationship with Christ. We are all capable of doing that, we were created to be in a relationship with Christ. So Christ is not needed to do our relationship for us. I don't know how else to explain it.

Cassian · Apr 29, 2014

Sirk said:

Why is that even necesary when it is about what scripture means.
But I will oblige you, it is Orthodox.

Why is it that so few actually understand what Christ acommplished for us. What the Gift of salvation actually is.

crossnote · Apr 29, 2014

Cassian said:

If that is your view have fun.

And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
(Rev 20:15)

Doesn't sound like universal salvation to me.

The Free Gift of Salvation

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