Streams of Sub-Consciousness Thoughts

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seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
15,221
4,700
113
If it helps, I've experiened pain at least as bad as (but probably much worse than) childbirth, and I wouldn't trade it for the world.

And I'm going to get flamed here, but pain is all relative. There crosses a threshold where it's just more pain on top of pain and it doesn't matter any more.


And I know, I've not had a child, but I had appendicitis for four days thinking it must be the flu since I had just seen the doctor. It was excruciatingly painful and I knew the last three of them I was dying (just not sure what I was dying of). the night it went full hand grenade inside my chest and ruptured. I let out an otherworldly noise that wasn't really a shriek but a call to arms - in this case, call an ambulance, as I was sinking.

So flame away, but I don't see having a baby as a horrible thing to be terrified about. You get a shiny new baby at the end of all of it, and a few hours or even a few days of pain makes nearly everyone stronger.

Hey Servant,

I can definitely relate. When I was 16, I was working 10 hour days, surviving on bottles of Tylenol, and eventually begged my Mom to take me to the doctor, which is something I NEVER do. Long story short--my appendix had been broken for 3 days, and by the time they operated, it pretty much exploded during the process. I was in the hospital almost 2 weeks and kept getting a fever, so they wouldn't let me go home.

I was still lying in my hospital bed about 10 days later, and the doctor came in, looked at the incision, and said without any emotion, "There's an infection in here." The next thing I know, the nurse came in the room, and without any warning or numbing procedures of ANY kind, they proceeded to cut and RIP OUT THE STITCHES right then and there. I was literally in a state of shock. They then allowed the entire incision to heal the rest of the way in its newly forced-open form. I told my Mom I didn't think I would ever walk again. They had been a day away from operating a second time. And the doctor told me that even 10 years earlier over 90% of people would have died from the kinds of complications I'd had.

I would imagine that pain is a mere fraction of what it's like to have a baby. I know I'm a bit biased here but I am definitely with the ladies on this one.

I've heard accounts of grown men being reduced to crying, blubbering messes at the passing of a 5mm (that's about 3/16 of an inch) kidney stone.


All I can say is that any man who says he has little to no fear of an event he will never experience himself that consists of forcefully extracting a 14 to 20-inch, 6 to 8 pound living, screaming human being from the lower extremity of the body, is most certainly... a breed of man all his own.
 

rachelsedge

Senior Member
Oct 15, 2012
3,659
79
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You only quoted the very end of my post. I made a pretty compelling case why childbirth is not the most painful thing imaginable for the average woman in a developed nation. If you thought my story was at all bad, I know people who have endured far worse.

Pregnancy isn't the trump card it used to be with modern medicine. Lots of people live on a daily basis with the same level of pain or more. There is no treatment for them.



Statisically, it's about as likely as dying in a car accident unless you're a high risk mother, and people have accepted that risk every day.

Perhaps I'm way too pragmatic about it, but it doesn't seem all that scary.

Then again, I've spent every year of my life watching my disabled mother struggle to move, breathe, and eat at times. I have a friend who is going to get to experience that within the next few years with his wife.

I'm just saying, if you want to be terrified, be terrified of that.
I think we're comparing apples and oranges, here. Yes, childbirth is painful. Having a chronic illness, while painful, is in a different realm than childbirth. Is childbirth the worst? Probably not. It's over in a few hours, or a few days at most. In fact, I'd venture to say that anything painful someone is experiencing can be "one-upped" by someone else. But that doesn't mean it can be written off as "Not that bad/not something to be scared about". Especially coming from a man, in a forum full of women. ;)
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
25,382
8,385
113
Well you know what they say... every man knows exactly what to do with a kicking mule - until he has one of his own.

About those kidney stones though, I have never had one myself but I have seen tough men brought to their knees by them. I wouldn't try to imply they're nothing. Especially as the place they're trying to go through is a lot smaller than where a baby goes through.

My boss at work, who is by no means a wimp, had kidley stones one time. (I said kidley, diddle I?) He was pumping gas one night and the pain hit, and he was down on the ground with one leg propped up on the curb, because that's the position where it hurt the least. His wife was trying to get him to get up and get in the car. He was like, NO! Another time the pain hit and he went to the emergency room. The nurse at the desk said, "You're not giving the pain pills time to work." He said, "No, I'm here in case they don't work." Coming from my boss, that's serious pain.
 

rachelsedge

Senior Member
Oct 15, 2012
3,659
79
48
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I've heard that kidney stones are as bad or worse than childbirth. In fact, one of my female coworkers who just had a baby last year said that she thought kidney stones were WORSE.

But I do agree, ServantStrike, that sometimes pain is subjective. While I think some things are going to be super painful for anyone (childbirth, kidney stones, breaking your arm), how you experience the pain and handle it is different. My twin and I both got tattoos on our 18th birthday. She was squirming in the chair in pain. When it was my turn, it obviously hurt, but I was able to grit my teeth and get through it without moving. Same tattoo placement, different reactions/tolerances.
 
S

Susanna

Guest
You only quoted the very end of my post. I made a pretty compelling case why childbirth is not the most painful thing imaginable for the average woman in a developed nation. If you thought my story was at all bad, I know people who have endured far worse.
I'm sorry, but I had to go bananas on that one. Nothing personal.
 
S

ServantStrike

Guest
I'm sorry, but I had to go bananas on that one. Nothing personal.
It's fine. I saw a few people worrying about childbirth as though it was going to be some horrendous experience, and I shared some personal experiences about how pain really doesn't matter if you're prepared for it. I get the message now. I will refrain from trying to offer any words of encouragement to any one on here in the future. My personal experiences are not important because I have the wrong gender organs. I guess all those times when I tried to tell the guys who were moaning about how women were evil to stop it, I should have just jumped on the bandwagon. I guess all those times I talked to some of the very people in this thread who decided they had a problem with me, it meant nothing too. Message clearly received. I will again point out what I have been trying to say all day now. There are a fair number of people here on this very forum who would gladly wish for childbirth to have been all the pain they ever went through. I've met a fair number in the real world where the cries of pain aren't masked behind a monitor too. I'm pretty sure these people already feel like outcasts, and adding on the whole "childbirth is the worst thing ever" argument doesn't help those people any more. For a lot of people, this forum is their only outlet. Not everyone here is healthy. I'm glad we have such a supportive environment where their plight goes unnoticed, or where they are told that their pain is somehow different from something that a fairly large portion of the population has decided isn't bad enough to warrant avoiding a second or even third time. I used to be one of those people who was sick. I only pray my health continues to improve as it has, because I won't be coming back here for support any time soon if it does fail.
 
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psychomom

Guest
i'd rather have a baby than a kidney stone...

(ps--childbirth ain't that bad)
 
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MissCris

Guest
I think the intense fear of child birth is less about the pain itself and more about the unknown. The idea of physical pain scares me, yes- but not knowing exactly what to expect is worse for me.
Anyway, ServantStrike- you're fine, I think most of us understood why you shared your story and what your point was :)
 
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psychomom

Guest
I think the intense fear of child birth is less about the pain itself and more about the unknown. The idea of physical pain scares me, yes- but not knowing exactly what to expect is worse for me.
that's really it, isn't it?

fear of the unknown...gotta be on everyone's list of the scariest?
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
15,221
4,700
113
Well I certainly wasn't trying to brush off kidney stones as not being a big deal...

My point was just that I think everyone's fears and pains should be respected, is all, and not dismissed as being lesser or worse than anyone else's.

I've known some women who gave birth within a few hours and said it was a breeze, and others who've labored for days, and a few who have experienced both because each child was a very different experience.

And of course, pain and fear are not gender-specific, which is why, again, all I was trying to say is that we all have a fear of pain, and what we fear and what we feel are person, but no less valid than that of another person, male or female.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
25,382
8,385
113
Calvin: "My dad's gonna kill me when he finds out I broke his binoculars!"
Hobbes: "Maybe you could tell your mother and she could tell your dad."
Calvin: "No, at times like this all mom can think of is how long she was in labor with me."
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,173
113
It's fine. I saw a few people worrying about childbirth as though it was going to be some horrendous experience, and I shared some personal experiences about how pain really doesn't matter if you're prepared for it. I get the message now. I will refrain from trying to offer any words of encouragement to any one on here in the future. My personal experiences are not important because I have the wrong gender organs. I guess all those times when I tried to tell the guys who were moaning about how women were evil to stop it, I should have just jumped on the bandwagon. I guess all those times I talked to some of the very people in this thread who decided they had a problem with me, it meant nothing too. Message clearly received. I will again point out what I have been trying to say all day now. There are a fair number of people here on this very forum who would gladly wish for childbirth to have been all the pain they ever went through. I've met a fair number in the real world where the cries of pain aren't masked behind a monitor too. I'm pretty sure these people already feel like outcasts, and adding on the whole "childbirth is the worst thing ever" argument doesn't help those people any more. For a lot of people, this forum is their only outlet. Not everyone here is healthy. I'm glad we have such a supportive environment where their plight goes unnoticed, or where they are told that their pain is somehow different from something that a fairly large portion of the population has decided isn't bad enough to warrant avoiding a second or even third time. I used to be one of those people who was sick. I only pray my health continues to improve as it has, because I won't be coming back here for support any time soon if it does fail.
Your opinions are important too and I agree that childbirth is not the most painful experience in life....will relate my experience shortly.....Thanks for taking up for us as I have seen you do in the past. We need guys like you and I appreciate you trying to give encouragement. For the ladies first time you are pregnant you usually are afraid until about 8 1/2 months and then they can't get the baby out of you fast enough and somehow the fear vanishes.....lol The pain is also forgotten usually pretty quick. Your experience ServantStrike sounded very painful lasting many days my discomfort was a good 24 hours.... I got over it pretty fast and had a beautiful daughter that made it worth that 24 hours worth of pain.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,173
113
O.K. now the baby story......having one that is.....lol When I went into the hospital to have my daughter I was the only one there and the nurses were so glad to see me I got VIP treatment it was coming up a full moon and I was the first to arrive. When I had gone to the birth classes they had said that you can ask for a shot to help ease the pain. So when I thought I wanted the shot the nurses told me no.....(No one said they could veto your request for the shot).....they said I wasn't dilating fast enough....so I suffered in silence. Finally they said o.k. you can have your shot now but you are dilating so fast now that the baby will be drugged up.... So Blond says oh forget I have gone this long without it how much worse can it get? So I did not have my shot to ease the pain.

I had NOTHING....NO DRUGS...... This is something they term as NATURAL CHILD BIRTH.... Believe it or not I was not a screamer....nope not a sound......suffered in silence......and now they are wheeling me into the delivery room put me on the table and put one foot in a stirrup and went to try to put the other foot in one and I said to them.......You either need to adjust that thing or make a wish because my legs don't spread that far apart.......O.K. everybody in the room is laughing but me now......and finally it is time to push and I am nearing the end of this process..... Doctor says one more big push and a nurse is practically standing on top of my stomach not really she did have her hands on top of my stomach pushing too and with that last push I let out the biggest and only scream which was promptly followed up with an I'M SORRY I DIDN'T MEAN TO DO THAT.....as my daughter was born....and the room was filled with laughter.....not mine.... But I was thankful it was over....

It really wasn't that bad....a little funny but not bad......
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
25,382
8,385
113
Quote from Bill Cosby: "Natural child birth... this means no drugs will be administered to the woman. The man can have all he wants."
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,472
16,381
113
69
Tennessee
It's fine. I saw a few people worrying about childbirth as though it was going to be some horrendous experience, and I shared some personal experiences about how pain really doesn't matter if you're prepared for it. I get the message now. I will refrain from trying to offer any words of encouragement to any one on here in the future. My personal experiences are not important because I have the wrong gender organs. I guess all those times when I tried to tell the guys who were moaning about how women were evil to stop it, I should have just jumped on the bandwagon. I guess all those times I talked to some of the very people in this thread who decided they had a problem with me, it meant nothing too. Message clearly received. I will again point out what I have been trying to say all day now. There are a fair number of people here on this very forum who would gladly wish for childbirth to have been all the pain they ever went through. I've met a fair number in the real world where the cries of pain aren't masked behind a monitor too. I'm pretty sure these people already feel like outcasts, and adding on the whole "childbirth is the worst thing ever" argument doesn't help those people any more. For a lot of people, this forum is their only outlet. Not everyone here is healthy. I'm glad we have such a supportive environment where their plight goes unnoticed, or where they are told that their pain is somehow different from something that a fairly large portion of the population has decided isn't bad enough to warrant avoiding a second or even third time. I used to be one of those people who was sick. I only pray my health continues to improve as it has, because I won't be coming back here for support any time soon if it does fail.
Your pain is very real to me and I thank you for your thoughtful replies, insight and the comfort that you offer.
 

ChandlerFan

Senior Member
Jan 8, 2013
1,148
102
63
It's fine. I saw a few people worrying about childbirth as though it was going to be some horrendous experience, and I shared some personal experiences about how pain really doesn't matter if you're prepared for it. I get the message now. I will refrain from trying to offer any words of encouragement to any one on here in the future. My personal experiences are not important because I have the wrong gender organs. I guess all those times when I tried to tell the guys who were moaning about how women were evil to stop it, I should have just jumped on the bandwagon. I guess all those times I talked to some of the very people in this thread who decided they had a problem with me, it meant nothing too. Message clearly received. I will again point out what I have been trying to say all day now. There are a fair number of people here on this very forum who would gladly wish for childbirth to have been all the pain they ever went through. I've met a fair number in the real world where the cries of pain aren't masked behind a monitor too. I'm pretty sure these people already feel like outcasts, and adding on the whole "childbirth is the worst thing ever" argument doesn't help those people any more. For a lot of people, this forum is their only outlet. Not everyone here is healthy. I'm glad we have such a supportive environment where their plight goes unnoticed, or where they are told that their pain is somehow different from something that a fairly large portion of the population has decided isn't bad enough to warrant avoiding a second or even third time. I used to be one of those people who was sick. I only pray my health continues to improve as it has, because I won't be coming back here for support any time soon if it does fail.
Who you choose to go to when you need help is your choice obviously, but perhaps you need to not take things so personally when people disagree with you. Any one of us could state just about any opinion we have and there will be someone out there who disagrees with us. You've got to be able to handle that.

The only other thing I'll say is something very obvious: pain isn't fun. You're probably going to run into some dissension when you tell discredit others' fear of future pain that they know is coming. It's easy to talk about it when you're on the other side of a painful experience, but that doesn't change the fact that it still hurt like heck for you, and for someone to fear that experience knowing that it is eventually going to come isn't a bad thing. Despite the reward afterwards, it still hurts in the moment. Despite the fact that the pain is worth it, it still hurts. While I understand the encouragement that you intend in what you're saying, the way you say it is lacking in acknowledging in the understanding that there is still going to be part of the experience that really flipping hurts :)

(Also, as a man, you're probably picking the wrong battle to tell women how they should feel about childbirth haha...just sayin'. There are better things to argue about :p)
 
M

MissCris

Guest
O.K. now the baby story......having one that is.....lol When I went into the hospital to have my daughter I was the only one there and the nurses were so glad to see me I got VIP treatment it was coming up a full moon and I was the first to arrive. When I had gone to the birth classes they had said that you can ask for a shot to help ease the pain. So when I thought I wanted the shot the nurses told me no.....(No one said they could veto your request for the shot).....they said I wasn't dilating fast enough....so I suffered in silence. Finally they said o.k. you can have your shot now but you are dilating so fast now that the baby will be drugged up.... So Blond says oh forget I have gone this long without it how much worse can it get? So I did not have my shot to ease the pain.

I had NOTHING....NO DRUGS...... This is something they term as NATURAL CHILD BIRTH.... Believe it or not I was not a screamer....nope not a sound......suffered in silence......and now they are wheeling me into the delivery room put me on the table and put one foot in a stirrup and went to try to put the other foot in one and I said to them.......You either need to adjust that thing or make a wish because my legs don't spread that far apart.......O.K. everybody in the room is laughing but me now......and finally it is time to push and I am nearing the end of this process..... Doctor says one more big push and a nurse is practically standing on top of my stomach not really she did have her hands on top of my stomach pushing too and with that last push I let out the biggest and only scream which was promptly followed up with an I'M SORRY I DIDN'T MEAN TO DO THAT.....as my daughter was born....and the room was filled with laughter.....not mine.... But I was thankful it was over....

It really wasn't that bad....a little funny but not bad......
A small part of me wishes I'd had natural births instead of C-sections. The plan was to get an epidural (with my first baby), which I did...but we ran into complications after I'd been in labor for 12 hours and the doctor told me all apologetically that we were going to have to do a C-section. I was like "YES! Please! Let's get this kid out already!" So they gave me more drugs, and I got seriously sick and shaky and was throwing up into a cup they gave me. Somewhere between getting sick and finally getting the C-section under way, I asked if I could get a cheeseburger. I dunno what I was thinking, I hadn't eaten in over 12 hours, I couldn't stop shaking, and everyone was all worried because I couldn't even keep water down. But I know I wanted a cheeseburger, and I know nobody gave me one. The jerks.

Anyway, childbirth stories are both interesting and gross to me. I mean, babies themselves are pretty disgusting...yeah. Your story is pretty funny :)
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
6,037
3,302
113
A small part of me wishes I'd had natural births instead of C-sections.
My sister wanted to do natural childbirth, but was robbed of it because she has a small pelvis and both my niece and nephew had their father's basketball head. With both pregnancies her OB recommended against trying natural due to the high possibility of complications. It seems that with these types of pregnancies they prefer to schedule a C-section a week or two prior to the due date to remove the possibility of having to do a C-section with contractions taking place.

Likewise my mom was robbed of "natural" childbirth. Although my sister and I both came into the world via the normal route, back in the late 60's common wisdom amongst OB's was to drug up (not epidural) a woman in labor so she didn't feel a thing. My mom tells me that she remembers almost nothing from her labor with me.