The grace of God and the Law

[Pilgrimshope]

Jesus died and rose again for our salvation.

Sure Jesus died and rose and became the source of salvation . Are you telling ne because Jesus died and rose everyone’s just magically saved ? …….

what about everything they all taught by the Holy Spirit ? Like repentance ? baptism for remission of sins ? communion with Jesus body and blood ? Doing Gods Will ? Eternal judgement based upon what we do ?


is your argument that Jesus death and resurrection makes everything else wrong or misleading lol I’m really not following your argument

Do you believe the rest of what the New Testament teaches or only that Jesus died and rose ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I guess I just don't know anyone like that.


Well, Paul was in fact the apostle to the gentiles, and Jesus was in fact sent to the Lost Sheep of Israel. What do those things mean to you?

Jesus taught the Law to a people (the only people, actually) who were under the Law. Paul taught those who were not under the Law.

Jesus taught of the coming kingdom promised to Israel. That kingdom was not promised to the gentiles. Does that contexual their teachings?

About the choosing thing, I'm not reformed, as they say.


Yeah, there are lots of false teachings. The fact is that God told differnent people different things at different times, and we need to consider such things.

For instance, no one here is building a ark, but why not? God commanded this, did he not? Noah, by faith, built the ark. Don't you have faith? Where is your ark?

I know, a silly example, but in fact this is the same things concerning the Law of Moses, which you know many defend to the bitter end that we are to keep it. Yet this was what God told that people in that time.

Abraham, who is called the father of the faithful, was not justifed by faith in Christ's death, for instance, but what does it say? "I will make you the father of many nations" while he yet had no children. Abraham believed God, and God accounted it to him for righteousness.

So we need to account for all these things.

Much love!

“Well, Paul was in fact the apostle to the gentiles, and Jesus was in fact sent to the Lost Sheep of Israel. What do those things mean to you?“

My reply would be to show you scripture to make my point .

Yes Jesus was sent first to only israel !

Stick with me a moment . Notice he sent his disciples out to only israel first to preach the gospel

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus sends the gospel to all
Israel only

“And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:1, 5-7‬ ‭

heres what I would say that later in the gospel as he was being rejected in Israel Jesus said this

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then he said this

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭


which applies the gospel Jesus had preached to Israel to all Of creation offering salvation ( note all of Jesus apostles were called afterwards tomoresch to all people even before Paul was converted to Christianity )the preaching is no different just the words they use .

Another point I would make about Paul is his place in regards to Christ Jesus

“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:1, 3, 5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as other point I would make is that Paul made this clear

“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. ( that’s what I’m saying people pervert the message and call it grace in order to remove the things Jesus actually said )

)But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭1:6-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Paul is just an apostle of Jesus and the gospel he doesn’t change a single word of Christ in the gospel nor does he add anything different or take anything away he only gives revelation of what Jesus began to teach . Paul o fact teaches more about repentance and behavior eternal judgement based on our deeds than anyone in the nt ….. even Jesus . I can show you if you wish that Paul’s doctrine will actually bring our minds to repentance and obedience if we stop rejecting it in the name of grace

 

[pinebeach]

Do you believe the rest of what the New Testament teaches or only that Jesus died and rose ?

Do you find salvation obnoxious unless you can somehow work for it? I'm starting to get that vibe

 

[pinebeach]

“Well, Paul was in fact the apostle to the gentiles, and Jesus was in fact sent to the Lost Sheep of Israel. What do those things mean to you?“

My reply would be to show you scripture to make my point .

Yes Jesus was sent first to only israel !

Stick with me a moment . Notice he sent his disciples out to only israel first to preach the gospel

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus sends the gospel to all
Israel only

“And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:1, 5-7‬ ‭

heres what I would say that later in the gospel as he was being rejected in Israel Jesus said this

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then he said this

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭


which applies the gospel Jesus had preached to Israel to all Of creation offering salvation ( note all of Jesus apostles were called afterwards tomoresch to all people even before Paul was converted to Christianity )the preaching is no different just the words they use .

Another point I would make about Paul is his place in regards to Christ Jesus

“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:1, 3, 5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as other point I would make is that Paul made this clear

“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. ( that’s what I’m saying people pervert the message and call it grace in order to remove the things Jesus actually said )

)But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭1:6-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Paul is just an apostle of Jesus and the gospel he doesn’t change a single word of Christ in the gospel nor does he add anything different or take anything away he only gives revelation of what Jesus began to teach . Paul o fact teaches more about repentance and behavior eternal judgement based on our deeds than anyone in the nt ….. even Jesus . I can show you if you wish that Paul’s doctrine will actually bring our minds to repentance and obedience if we stop rejecting it in the name of grace

I think if Paul were alive today you would try to take his place.

 

[markss]

“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. ( that’s what I’m saying people pervert the message and call it grace in order to remove the things Jesus actually said )

)But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”

I'm sorry, I'm done.

Much love!

 

[pinebeach]

Sure Jesus died and rose and became the source of salvation . Are you telling ne because Jesus died and rose everyone’s just magically saved ? …….

Well you have made this thread your own and you must be very pleased. You and a couple of others no doubt.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I think if Paul were alive today you would try to take his place.

I’m positive you would reject and avoid what he was teaching

“Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. “
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with righteousness by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭NIV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Well you have made this thread your own and you must be very pleased. You and a couple of others no doubt.

I wouldn’t post things like this in a public forum designed for discussion of you are going to get all upset when people discuss and speak of things you don’t want to hear that are written on the Bible

air is after all a biblical discussion forum . There used to be a conspiracy theory thread I’m not sure though but the Bible discussion forum just to give a heads up . Anything you post there’s going to be some people who probably have different thoughts

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I'm sorry, I'm done.

Much love!

Right. Scripture tends to “ complicate Bible discussions sometimes

“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For All flesh is as grass, And all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:22-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All I was saying is removing the word of Christ and calling it gods grace ….isnt a good idea His words are forever…. And will judge all humanity in the end whether we claim it’s grace or not

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i mean it’s the same thing paul one of Jesus apostles preached ….

 

[pinebeach]

I wouldn’t post things like this in a public forum designed for discussion of you are going to get all upset when people discuss and speak of things you don’t want to hear that are written on the Bible

air is after all a biblical discussion forum . There used to be a conspiracy theory thread I’m not sure though but the Bible discussion forum just to give a heads up . Anything you post there’s going to be some people who probably have different thoughts

I think that in one of my posts, I must have hit on a nerve. A big one.

 

[pinebeach]

I'm sorry, I'm done.

Much love!

Good idea.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I think that in one of my posts, I must have hit on a nerve. A big one.

Not really I’ve been fine since the first time you said you would put me on ignore lol I don’t get bothered by this place anymore friend I did for about a year but I’ve been here long enough to understand it’s a discussion forum sometimes I end up discussing with someone who agrees and has things to add other times o end up discussing with someone who disagrees about everything I’ve said …… I’m okay with either it lends to bi ke study and prayerful consideration either way.

at this point it seems like we’re wasting time though so I hope to in the future find a discussion where we have more agreement

 

[studentoftheword]

You simply do not understand my op and what you say about me is not true. I do not have one single thought or hope of changing your perception of me or my op. I understand you need to justify yourself but that is a you problem. Sorry, it's not that we should agree to disagree. We are not on the same planet

Not surprised of your reply here -----your just showing that you are the one that has the problem accepting others comments ---as you want to be the only one who thinks they know it all when it comes to scripture ---so you have to put other post down so you can puff your ego up ------Pride in full view ---

Take Heed ----you like posting Scripture ---so here is one ----

Proverbs 29

Warnings and Instructions​

29 He who hardens his neck and refuses instruction after being often reproved (corrected, criticized),
Will suddenly be broken beyond repair.


Proverbs 29 focuses on the consequences of stubbornness, the danger of ignoring correction ---

​

And this you say here​

I understand you need to justify yourself but that is a you problem ----

Sending your statement Right Back at Ya!​

I understand you need to justify yourself but that is a you problem ----
​

 

[pinebeach]

Nothing has changed. This was the op and people are responsible for responding as they did. If you don't care to discuss the grace of God and His gift of salvation you don't have to. A couple of people did not want to and did not hide the fact. It's a public forum after all. It's a shame that you decided to behave as you did. It's worth noting that one does not start their own threads but just takes over the threads of others, just as has been done here...and the other must think someone here cares about all the mockery and images. But again, this is just a forum. I doubt you would have the liberty to act the way you do in public.

Still, why do you object so much to the simple contrast of grace and law? Perhaps that is the more telling question here.




The Law, Old Testament, says do and live while the grace of God says live in Christ and then do.

Grace put very simply: God's grace is greater than all our sin and Jesus died for the sins of the world. John 3:16

............................................... Grace is not earned nor kept.

....................................... For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. John 1:17


Of course this op is going to be like a waving red flag to some and that's ok. The truth is still the truth and the word of God does not return to Him void.

so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it. Isaiah 55:11

Apart from the spoken word of God, the word according to scripture, is also Jesus. Jesus is sent from God. Jesus, who absolutely accomplished all of the purposes of God and in whom we are righteous before God.

And, John testifies of this also.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. John chapter 1.....

 

[studentoftheword]

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

This Scripture you post here has nothing to do with your Thread Title so you blast others for going off topic ---when your going off topic yourself here ------------

-you post this scripture now spiritually define it so others can understand what it really means Spiritually ----what is the good of just posting scripture after scripture without the Spiritual Interpretation of it ----

It just sounds like a bunch of noise ---and is fruitless in its offering to others -------

I await your reply ---- and I leave you with this ---OH and by the way -----Myself and others who have posted here Have certainly addressed your Thread Title ----which is The grace of God and the Law-----

We all need to take Heed to Proverbs 4:7

 

[markss]

Right. Scripture tends to “ complicate Bible discussions sometimes

Seriously, this is your reply? What nonsense!



No, it's your fonts. I've already told you this a few times.

Much love!

 

[markss]

I think that in one of my posts, I must have hit on a nerve. A big one.

On the radio this morning on my way to work the fellow was comparing/contrasting the broken Christian to the prideful Christian, I couldn't help but running through my mind various forum members I've encountered over the years.

Much love!

 

[markss]

This Scripture you post here has nothing to do with your Thread Title so you blast others for going off topic ---when your going off topic yourself here ------------

You must be on the hunt.

That passages attests to the veracity of Jesus' ministry and teaching, and certainly relates to the topic.

Much love!

 

[markss]

Nothing has changed. This was the op and people are responsible for responding as they did. If you don't care to discuss the grace of God and His gift of salvation you don't have to. A couple of people did not want to and did not hide the fact. It's a public forum after all. It's a shame that you decided to behave as you did. It's worth noting that one does not start their own threads but just takes over the threads of others, just as has been done here...and the other must think someone here cares about all the mockery and images. But again, this is just a forum. I doubt you would have the liberty to act the way you do in public.

Still, why do you object so much to the simple contrast of grace and law? Perhaps that is the more telling question here.




The Law, Old Testament, says do and live while the grace of God says live in Christ and then do.

Grace put very simply: God's grace is greater than all our sin and Jesus died for the sins of the world. John 3:16

............................................... Grace is not earned nor kept.

....................................... For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. John 1:17


Of course this op is going to be like a waving red flag to some and that's ok. The truth is still the truth and the word of God does not return to Him void.

so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it. Isaiah 55:11

Apart from the spoken word of God, the word according to scripture, is also Jesus. Jesus is sent from God. Jesus, who absolutely accomplished all of the purposes of God and in whom we are righteous before God.

And, John testifies of this also.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. John chapter 1.....

There seems to be the often times seen blending of old and new covenants. I know in my self it's hard sometimes to not feel like my performance in life affects my relationship with God, though He's shown me so many times He loves me regardless, and He is always with me working with me. I need LOTS of work!

The Law says, You do it, and no one can. Grace says, I've done what you could not, on your behalf. Faith says, I'm going to trust you for that.

Much love!

 

[Soyeong]

.
................................................................View attachment 287773
.


The Law, Old Testament, says do and live while the grace of God says live in Christ and then do.

Neither connects doing and living extrinsically. The content of a gift can be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari, where the gift intrinsically requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but where doing that work contributes nothing towards earning the opportunity to experience driving it as the result. In Luke 10:25-25, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, which is in accordance with the OT, and something that we inherit is a gift, so he was speaking about what is intrinsically required to in order to experience the gift of eternal life, not extrinsically about what we are required to have done first on order to have eternal life or about what we are required to have done as the result of having eternal life first. In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put fans ears far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.