God of the Paradox
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K
Yes we do suffer from their choice.That is the nature of sin. Do you think you would have made a different choice? Just kind of think on that.You have a garden of paradise,you walk and talk with God,literally,THE God and He your creator,you know this.And in spite of Him telling you "do not eat the fruit of that tree" you can have alllll the rest,dont touch that one tree.If you eat of that one tree you will die.This is God talking to you face to face.And yet they chose to eat of the tree.Do we think we'd have made a different choice? These people literally walked and talked with God and they still messed up.Do we think we're more righteous than they were? Just a thought.
K
Yes,actually,I can.I've been in forums that are atheist and Darwinist.It went against everything I believed and was taught.But I wanted to be honest with myself.I felt maybe I had been sheltered because of my upbringing.Maybe I didn't know what I thought I knew.It helped me a lot because they were asking hard questions.I started to think "what do I really believe?" And I began to read,a lot.I looked a lot deeper.I read a lot of debates one side vs the other.I cant say that I dont have doubts.I could sit and tell you the story of my life and perhaps you'd better understand.I've faced a lot of things in life.I grew up in a Christian home but Ive faced a lot in life that made me question.Greater minds than mine,far greater have pondered these questions.Let me end with this story and why I feel a pull back to God every time I have these doubts...
My uncle died two years ago with cancer.He was raised in a Christian home,a good home.His parents and siblings, all Christians.They all remained Christians in their adult life but not him.He didn't want to talk about it,he didn't live it.He married a woman who was an unbeliever,he didn't raise his kids in church.Went his own way.His siblings gave up trying to persuade him and just prayed for him.
Several years ago he was told he had cancer.Cancer runs though the family,his sister died of it.Still he refused to talk about God.No one pushed the subject.We all thought he was doing well.The treatments were working,he was so positive and was living his life and four years later we thought he'd beaten it.Two Christmas's ago he took very ill.We were told that he wasn't going to make it through this time. A neighbor who was a friend of his went and saw him,he died at home.The neighbor was a Christian and spoke to him about his soul.He wouldn't hear it from family.My mother was distraught because she knew he wasn't a Christian and he was going into eternity.The neighbor witnessed to him.When his brother went to see him for the last time he decided he had to talk to him about his soul.He said "its ok,everything is right with my soul now,I'm ready to go." He wasn't an affectionate man but told his brother to come lay on the bed beside him,they feel asleep together.A few days later,he died. We can debate and argue all day long.I admit I have had doubts.But still there is that God shaped hole in me.I'm not complete without Him.Im not whole.My life becomes a mess.Life is meaningless without Him.I guess I feel the same as Solomon did,life is fleeting and futile,the only answer is God.I cant run from Him no matter how hard Ive tried that hole is there.And I think it is for everyone,just not everyone wants to admit it.The cost is too high,so they bury it.Its not easy to give up your rights and become a servant.Your spirit does not want to bend.
Anyhow Im sorry,didn't mean to write a book.If you honestly look you'll find the Answer.I'm not God,I cant answer all your questions.If you give it an honest look you may be surprised at what you find.But of course the choice is yours.I only gave you a bit of my story.And thanks for being so respectful here in the forum. I always find you easy to talk to and honest.I hope we both make the other think and look deeper.
Was it Augustine who said, "Our hearts are restless til they rest in Thee."?
Or was it Francis Thompson?
Or was it Francis Thompson?
The cost is too high,so they bury it.Its not easy to give up your rights and become a servant.Your spirit does not want to bend.
Anyhow Im sorry,didn't mean to write a book.If you honestly look you'll find the Answer.I'm not God,I cant answer all your questions.If you give it an honest look you may be surprised at what you find.But of course the choice is yours.I only gave you a bit of my story.And thanks for being so respectful here in the forum. I always find you easy to talk to and honest.I hope we both make the other think and look deeper.
Anyhow Im sorry,didn't mean to write a book.If you honestly look you'll find the Answer.I'm not God,I cant answer all your questions.If you give it an honest look you may be surprised at what you find.But of course the choice is yours.I only gave you a bit of my story.And thanks for being so respectful here in the forum. I always find you easy to talk to and honest.I hope we both make the other think and look deeper.
V
Proof? It is all around you, Colin.
The complexity of our planet, of the entire universe and its perfect balance, points emphatically to a Designer who not only created it, but sustains it.
The universe obviously had a start. It operates under uniform laws, something chaos cannot accomplish on its own. DNA is no accident. The complexity is impossible without design.
The clearest, most evidence proof is the fact that you are here, Colin, seeking answers while denying they exist. That ius because God pursues all men, longing to have relationship with them. And Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing Himself to us. Who but God would satisfy an impossible scenario -- the separation of those He loves from Him by paying the penalty they owe -- in order to prove the love you deny is possible for you to return without proof? Proof you already have.
The complexity of our planet, of the entire universe and its perfect balance, points emphatically to a Designer who not only created it, but sustains it.
The universe obviously had a start. It operates under uniform laws, something chaos cannot accomplish on its own. DNA is no accident. The complexity is impossible without design.
The clearest, most evidence proof is the fact that you are here, Colin, seeking answers while denying they exist. That ius because God pursues all men, longing to have relationship with them. And Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing Himself to us. Who but God would satisfy an impossible scenario -- the separation of those He loves from Him by paying the penalty they owe -- in order to prove the love you deny is possible for you to return without proof? Proof you already have.
And there it is.. Perfect example of God of the Gaps.
When tribes used to die of diseases.. They didn't understand Germs. The only logical answer was a curse from a rival tribes god.
When ancient people saw the sun move across the sky, they didn't understand the universe. The only logical was a god used to drag it behind him on a chariot.
You've just done the exact same thing, and eventually those gaps in our knowledge may be filled.. And god will be responsible for less and less.
When tribes used to die of diseases.. They didn't understand Germs. The only logical answer was a curse from a rival tribes god.
When ancient people saw the sun move across the sky, they didn't understand the universe. The only logical was a god used to drag it behind him on a chariot.
You've just done the exact same thing, and eventually those gaps in our knowledge may be filled.. And god will be responsible for less and less.
how long do you need to stand, in the one spot to see an equinox. but it still shows up twice a year. lol
even in the fiction books, and films, of harry potter, death is also shown and mentioned.
the non fiction, bible talks of real events,
to how, an explanation, to how, the bible tells, how, jesus fixed this problem, and how death is now conquered, to them that believe. in a god through jesus.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned---13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
is death a reminder, to all believers or non believers ,there are some things we dont control.
some answers that can only be answer by the maker, (if you believe in god, that is)
even in the fiction books, and films, of harry potter, death is also shown and mentioned.
the non fiction, bible talks of real events,
to how, an explanation, to how, the bible tells, how, jesus fixed this problem, and how death is now conquered, to them that believe. in a god through jesus.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned---13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
is death a reminder, to all believers or non believers ,there are some things we dont control.
some answers that can only be answer by the maker, (if you believe in god, that is)
So.... if everything that exists must have a Cause, then what thing Caused the big bang? Whatever that thing is called, then that thing should also have a Cause; And so on and so on and so on. .... And so on. In other words, it is not illogical to say that a watchmaker has made a watch. So the question remains who made the watchmaker? God or some naturalistic thing in the universe? But what was the cause of that naturalistic thing in the universe, though? And what was before that?