Who Justifieth the Ungodly
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I tried to read all the posts before this but i admit that i didn't read them all..
Jesus came and lived among us.
He live a perfect life without sin.
His righteousness robe was obtained.
He died without sin. Paid the penalty of death but was faultless.
He made provision to forgive every sin, so was able to pay for every sinners debt.
Forgiveness was not made at the cross, provision to forgive was made at the cross. There is a difference.
By faith we can be imputed with Christ's righteousness
and by faith we are justified.
But many forget about the last part that is in the bible in many places.
Judgement.
We are judged by works.
Christ will judge the world.
We are given justification by faith but when Christ judges us He looks at the sincerity of the faith. Was our faith true, were we really sorry? Faith without works is dead, by their fruits you will know them.
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
I am not saying works save us. Christ's righteousness covers us.
The faith will be judged.
Jesus came and lived among us.
He live a perfect life without sin.
His righteousness robe was obtained.
He died without sin. Paid the penalty of death but was faultless.
He made provision to forgive every sin, so was able to pay for every sinners debt.
Forgiveness was not made at the cross, provision to forgive was made at the cross. There is a difference.
By faith we can be imputed with Christ's righteousness
and by faith we are justified.
But many forget about the last part that is in the bible in many places.
Judgement.
We are judged by works.
Christ will judge the world.
We are given justification by faith but when Christ judges us He looks at the sincerity of the faith. Was our faith true, were we really sorry? Faith without works is dead, by their fruits you will know them.
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
I am not saying works save us. Christ's righteousness covers us.
The faith will be judged.
renewed
Christ in Acts 5:31 is said to be exalted to give repentance to Israel, which is a term denoting a elect people, and since He gives them repentance, that supposes or means He gives them new life, since repentance is a spiritual blessing from new birth, also He gives them forgiveness of sins, which means they are Justified. Forgiveness of sins comes with redemption Col 1:14
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
And Justification comes with redemption Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Acts 5:31
at the very least you should read Acts 5:31 together with Acts 5:32, brightfame52:
Acts 5:
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
at the very least you should read Acts 5:31 together with Acts 5:32, brightfame52:Acts 5:
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
And Justification comes with redemption Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
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renewed
Again, Christ died for the world of the saved. If He died for a person, that person is Justified from all sin, saved from its penalty Heb 9:12
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
That word redemption means:
lytrōsis :
brightfame52 said:
Christ died for the whole world of the saved.
... more of your manipulation of Scripture in your feeble attempt to prop up your erroneous dogma.
Christ died for the whole world of the saved.
... more of your manipulation of Scripture in your feeble attempt to prop up your erroneous dogma.
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
That word redemption means:
lytrōsis :
- a ransoming, redemption
- deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin
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Again the natural man is dead to God, has no spiritual discernment 1 Cor 2:13-14
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
renewed
You dont believe plain scripture, you cant receive the Truth. Again those Christ died for were reconciled to God by His death while they were being enemies. Rom 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
You dont believe plain scripture.
that I do not hold to your erroneous dogma you've been "studying for decades" does not mean I "don't believe plain scripture".
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
enemies translated from Greek echthros – ("enemy"), implies irreconcilable hostility,
reconciled translated from Greek katallássō – decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.
that I do not hold to your erroneous dogma you've been "studying for decades" does not mean I "don't believe plain scripture".Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
enemies translated from Greek echthros – ("enemy"), implies irreconcilable hostility,
reconciled translated from Greek katallássō – decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
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renewed
Its been addressed many times, you reject it. You deny Rom 4:5 for it teaches that God justifies the ungodly.
all for whom He died are Justified from all sin, and counted righteous
intentionally obtuse ...
Address the issue, brightfame52:
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not [present tense], but believeth [present tense] on him that justifieth [present tense] the ungodly, his faith is counted [present tense] for righteousness.
The verbs are in the present tense which means that at the very moment the person believes, his/her faith is counted for righteousness ... at that very moment, God justifies the one who believes ... at that very moment the believer is no longer ungodly.
If you can't address the issue, just say you can't address it.
intentionally obtuse ...Address the issue, brightfame52:
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not [present tense], but believeth [present tense] on him that justifieth [present tense] the ungodly, his faith is counted [present tense] for righteousness.
The verbs are in the present tense which means that at the very moment the person believes, his/her faith is counted for righteousness ... at that very moment, God justifies the one who believes ... at that very moment the believer is no longer ungodly.
If you can't address the issue, just say you can't address it.
renewed
Your understanding is faulty because the verse says " Believeth on Him that Justifeth the ungodly" and the ungodly has the definite article, so its specifying that they are in a ungodly state, being justified. Now that being the case, they werent regenerate or believers when Justified.
The same ungodly Christ died for Rom 5:6
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
So those ungodly ones Christ died for, are Justified solely due to the fact He died for them, and you dont believe that.
Your understanding is faulty because the verse says " Believeth on Him that Justifeth the ungodly" and the ungodly has the definite article, so its specifying that they are in a ungodly state, being justified. Now that being the case, they werent regenerate or believers when Justified.
The same ungodly Christ died for Rom 5:6
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
So those ungodly ones Christ died for, are Justified solely due to the fact He died for them, and you dont believe that.
renewed
So once again, you deny the testification of Christs resurrection, that sinners He died in the place and stead of, for their sins, when He arose, both He and they were Justified. So many ungodly persons were Justified simply because Christ died for them.
1 Cor 15:17
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
See that ? Christ being raised means those He died for are not in their sins. You however teach that Christ died for people, and rose again for them, and yet they still die in their sins.
You may as well flat out deny Christs resurrection altogether.
we know that Christs resurrection is an evidence that those He died for have been Justified
brightfame52, do you really believe that if not for mankind believing, the Lord Jesus Christ would have remained in the grave? ... that the grave could hold him???
Acts 2:24 Whom [the Lord Jesus Christ] God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
the Lord Jesus Christ would have risen from the grave if no one believed.
brightfame52, do you really believe that if not for mankind believing, the Lord Jesus Christ would have remained in the grave? ... that the grave could hold him???Acts 2:24 Whom [the Lord Jesus Christ] God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
the Lord Jesus Christ would have risen from the grave if no one believed.
1 Cor 15:17
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
See that ? Christ being raised means those He died for are not in their sins. You however teach that Christ died for people, and rose again for them, and yet they still die in their sins.
You may as well flat out deny Christs resurrection altogether.
renewed
Nothing has been ignored by me, its you who denies that God justifies sinners while they are ungodly and unregenerate.
And those who have been Justified before God by the death of Christ alone, in due time will be regenerate, and given the Gift of Faith to believe in Christ who has already Justified them. So a regenerate person can and does exercise Faith, yet the Faith wasn't their own natural faith, but Faith given them by the Spirit of regeneration.
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This is error, Faith isnt a condition for God to Justify a ungodly person, Christs death for them is the condition, then later God gives Faith to receive the knowledge of it.
Nothing has been ignored by me, its you who denies that God justifies sinners while they are ungodly and unregenerate.
And those who have been Justified before God by the death of Christ alone, in due time will be regenerate, and given the Gift of Faith to believe in Christ who has already Justified them. So a regenerate person can and does exercise Faith, yet the Faith wasn't their own natural faith, but Faith given them by the Spirit of regeneration.
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This is error, Faith isnt a condition for God to Justify a ungodly person, Christs death for them is the condition, then later God gives Faith to receive the knowledge of it.
renewed
Thats your problem, Faith receives, embraces the testification of Christs resurrection, that them He died for are Justified. Faith receives that testimony, you dont Again 1 Cor 15:17
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
But since Christ was raised for our Justification as shown in Rom 4:25, them He rose for are not in their sins, so God given Faith embraces, receives that Divine Testimony.
Yet you deny it, frankly that's unbelief. You dont believe sinners Christ died for no longer have any sin to be laid to their charge, and are Justified.
All these verses are restricted to the Justified, the saved
All whom Christ died for and Justified will be given Faith to believe it.
Faith, believing is the fruit and power of the Spirit working in a person.
More insults.
Thats your problem, Faith receives, embraces the testification of Christs resurrection, that them He died for are Justified. Faith receives that testimony, you dont Again 1 Cor 15:17
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
But since Christ was raised for our Justification as shown in Rom 4:25, them He rose for are not in their sins, so God given Faith embraces, receives that Divine Testimony.
Yet you deny it, frankly that's unbelief. You dont believe sinners Christ died for no longer have any sin to be laid to their charge, and are Justified.
All these verses are restricted to the Justified, the saved
All whom Christ died for and Justified will be given Faith to believe it.
Faith, believing is the fruit and power of the Spirit working in a person.
More insults.